Is It Shootout-time For CuJo?

by on October 18, 2008 in Uncategorized - 27 Comments

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After a spectacular game by Vesa Toskala and Co. tonight, the scoreless game was decided in the shootout, and once again, the Leafs were on the losing side.

While it seems unfair to bring this up after such a dominant game by #35, it must be said: Is it time to play Curtis Joseph in the shootouts?

My initial thoughts were mixed on the subject. It could be argued both ways, but I think it would benefit the Leafs to atleast try it. Toskala is a solid goaltender in the NHL, but his shootout stats are abysmal, and if the Leafs want to win some more hockey games, perhaps a change in net is needed once the skills competition begins.

Take a look at Toskala’s shootout stats:

From 07-08 season:

Wins/Loses: 2/5 = 0.400 (Had a 3-game losing streak in the SO)

Save Percentage: 9/15 = 0.600

Career stats (Not counting tonight):

W/L: 2-8

SA/GA: 32 /16

SV%: .500

Toskala has already participated in two shootouts this season and 4 goals out of 6 shots have gotten through the Finnish goaltender.

Let’s take a look at Joseph’s shootout stats now:

From 06-07 season (Phoenix Coyotes):

Save Percentage: 8/32 = 0.750

Career Stats:

W/L: 5-3

SA/GA: 32/8

SV%: .750

It’s an interesting thought, and since the Leafs lose in the shootouts regularly anyway, trying Joseph could do no harm.

What’s your opinion on the matter?

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  • Jacob

    It’s weird you say that, because i suggested doing it before the shootout happened to my friend. I figure Joseph has a much larger body to do it better.

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  • goldenleafs

    Not sure how much the Leafs practice the shootout… but imo it’s something all teams should put a considerable about of time practicing. Not just for shootout, but it would also help the goalie be ready for breakaways… with the speed of the game today, it happens often enough.

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  • Burn

    I am not in favour of switching goalies for the shootout. It demeans the starter and puts too much pressure on a cold goalie. It’s been done before and it doesn’t work. Our goalies haven’t historically done well in the shootout, but neither have the shooters. We’ve taken 6 shots and scored only 2 times, both scored by Kulemin. It doesn’t matter who is in the net if we can’t score. Can’t save or score in the shootout.

    Also, Jacob it’s not about a “bigger body” to do better in the shootout. It has to do with positioning, which Toskala has struggled with in the shootout. He’s backing up waayy too much!! He was on the goalline last night on the winning goal. Had he not been so far back the puck wouldn’t have hit him then the post then him again and went in. He’s retreating far too quickly and giving away too much of the net.

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  • Jason L

    Although Toskala has been awful in the shootout, he can make all the saves in the world and if his team can’t score, it doesn’t matter.

    I don’t think putting Cujo in cold would be beneficial. I can actually hear his 41 year old groin snapping on the first post to post.

    I like Wilson as a coach, but his shoot out selection leaves my head shaking. Kulemin is a no brainer, but Stajan and Blake? Unless the shootout turns in to a “hit the goalies crest from 50ft out” Blake should be left on the bench.

    Hagman and Moore have shown the most talent of the forward core this season, why not throw them out there? Or Kaberle, Schenn(1 for 1 so far), Van Ryn, etc.

    Frustrating…

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  • Troy

    Well, Joseph is getting up in age, and your stats for him are two years old.
    That being said, since a number 2 goalie doesn’t do anything more than warm the bench during games, why not have the back-up focus on shoot-outs before, during, or after practice?
    Turn the back-up into a shoot-out specialist. There’s nothing to lose since these skills would still help in game situations when they’re called upon.
    Training the back-up in this way would avoid bruising the ego of the starter because it would be understood that that is the #2′s job.

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  • ronguillet

    I see positives and negatives on both sides, and you can bring up a good argument either way you look at it. The idea can be argued to death, but since we lose in the SO all the time anyway, why not try, and if it doesn’t work the one time, then we scrap the idea and continue on with Toskala. But if it works, I doubt Toskala would feel broken or insulted by being replaced, he’s been given the opportunity in the SO many times and he just can’t do it… not his thing.

    Now, obviously the Leafs can’t score goals on the SO (except for Kulemin….god bless) but we shouldn’t be looking at it like that. The goaltender and scorers are separate here, and if Toskala would of stopped even 1 of the goals he let in last night, maybe a newcomer like Grabovski or Hagman would get their chance. You can SO practice all you want, but I remember Ponikarovsky being good in practice and then sucking when it really mattered. We need our goalie to stop the puck and keep us in it, this way we can try and wide variety of players, and cease the likes of Stajan and Blake on the SO, who obviously can’t do it. If Joseph really is a solid SO goalie, it would make it much easier to determine who are 3 shooters should be.

    Maybe a trio of:

    Grabovski
    Kulemin
    Hagman
    (Steen)
    (Kaberle)

    ???

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  • Troy

    Ron, I agree completely with your top three shooters.

    About Poni, that’s funny! He’s good in practice, but the big difference between a practice and a game is the goalie he’s shooting on. Who’s he shooting on in practice? Toskala.

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  • John

    The leafs should have Toskala practice shootouts with only Kulemin shooting at him.

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  • Hockey_Guru

    Vesa would be much better on shootouts if he wouldn’t back into his net so far.. challenge the shooter a little and when he comes in close ATTACK… give him a little pokecheck or a flying stack of the pads! He’s far too passive!

    Either way, Blake and Stajan in the shootout is retarded.

    Kulemin
    Kaberle
    Moore
    Kubina
    Tlusty
    Grabovksi and Steen even!

    All these guys should be shooting int he shootout before Blake and Stajan!! Atleast Antropov wasn’t in there to shoot it right into the goalies pads. Geez though, theese SO’s are getting annoying to watch when you know we are brutal at them.

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  • Hockey_Guru

    John, Kulemin does he same move every time. That would be not be helping toskala get better. Kulemin is great, but he’s going to have to change his moves up or else the goalies are going to catch on fast!

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  • Jason L
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  • Sugar Hill

    Is this the quality of discussion topics you’re going to have on this site Alex? Seriously?

    No. He shouldn’t.

    Wow..

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  • Jacob

    Alex Tran doesn’t own the site regardless of the amount of articles he has up there Sugar Hill.

    And thanks for sharing your opinion. “No. He shouldn’t”. Good stuff. You’re like the kid that walks into a party and ruins every conversation for everyone and then wonders why no one wants to give him cake.

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  • Sugar Hill

    Sorry Jacob.

    Perhaps the next topic should be, “Should Cujo take a shot in the shootout… he hasn’t missed one yet….”

    Discuss…

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  • Jacob

    You’ve gone from ignorant to idiotic. I’d feel bad for this country if you were Canadian.

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  • Troy

    If you don’t have anything nice to say…

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  • Hockey_Guru

    Then try to lip eachother off over the internet? lol

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  • Blair

    Teams employ players that are useless during the game but specialize in certain areas, the easiest examples being for faceoffs, but teams even have shoot out specialists now. Is it that much of a stretch to suggest teams carry a back up that are shoot out specialists? It’s certainly plausible and I don’t believe the starting goalie would be THAT insulted by the choice – most players would rather win than pad their stats a little and Toskala seems like a fairly easy going guy.

    In related news, Kulemin is looking just as promising as advertised.

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  • Mark Ribble

    Very interesting topic, Ron. I was talking about that very thing with my son the other night.
    I see pros and cons. The fact that pro baseball teams have a closer for a similar purpose kind of lends itself to the argument.
    However, in the overall picture, do you really want a cold back-up coming in when the game is on the line after sitting down for 2 hours?
    I just don’t know whether you’re any better off than letting the starter, who has played a spectaculat game so far, do the honours.
    As far as shooters go, the first three should always be your top offensive players, which in my mind is Grabovski, Hagman and Kulemin.
    These guys are gifted offensive talents who probably spent much of their childhood honing their stickhandling, deking and shooting skills.
    Blake and Stajan are basically grinder type players.

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  • Mike

    I would welcome this choice, but we also have to look at the fact, how many times have the leafs NOT scored in the shootout, the leafs have lost many shootouts with just 1 goal scored against toskala…The blame is on the shooters

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  • http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com Chemmy

    It would appear that it shouldn’t be shootout time for Cujo.

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  • Blair

    lol So much for that suggestion. Worth a try I suppose.

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  • Sugar Hill

    I don’t know if its more embarrasing that this topic was dicsussed or that they actually tried it. That was horrific.

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  • Burn

    TSN just showed a graphic of all the times that a goalie came in cold off the bench for the shootout. It’s happened 4 times(including last night with Cujo) and they are a combined 0 saves on 8 shots.

    It’s a bad move.

    I think this has more to do with sending a message than a tactic to try to win.

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  • ronguillet

    Ha, oh well, it was worth a try..

    Looks as though we’ll be losing the SO’s all season.

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