Leafs Must Be Patient with Pogge

by on December 23, 2008 in Uncategorized - 12 Comments

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Justin Pogge debuted his NHL career with a .905 SV% and a 2.00 GAA.

Not too shabby.

Pogge displayed an active glove hand, quick lateral movement, solid positioning and decent rebound control. An aspect of his game I was particularly impressed with was his ability to make himself look big. Possessing a 6’3, 205 pound frame, Pogge’s size is best utilized when screened or making the save through a crowd – an asset Vesa Toskala is not blessed with.

The prospect of appointing Pogge as the starting goaltender is an enticing one. The Leafs are a rebuilding squad that have granted rookies several roster spots. The timing seems perfect to insert Pogge to the lineup and have him debut his career as the Leafs’ starting goaltender.

But hold on. Let’s consider the consequence to this decision.

Toskala’s value. If Toskala loses his job to a 22-year old, the Leafs can forget about bringing in a potential 1st round pick for the Finnish goaltender.

Considering the Leafs’ situation between the pipes, there is no point in playing Pogge right now. If the Leafs wait until either the NHL Trade Deadline or the 09/10 regular season, Pogge will still be there, and just as ready.

Despite Toskala’s struggles this season, he is still a coveted asset in this league. A goaltender of his stature is best suited on a Cup contending team. Not a rebuilding team.

With just under three months until the Trade Deadline, it would be in the Leafs’ best interest to utilize that time by letting Toskala regain his form. In the event of Toskala’s dominance being rekindled, the Leafs could not only obtain a 1st round pick, but prospects as well. If he continues to struggle with consistency, his value will still be higher than awarding his job to a young goaltending prospect.

The Leafs must exercise a quality they have not been familiar with in the past few decades.

Patience.

You stay classy, MLHS.

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  • betterforsome

    You forgot Pogge’s bitchin’ goalie mask.

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  • John Miller

    Haha GREAT POINT betterforsome

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  • Georgie

    Awesome blog as always Ron.

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  • Blair

    He deserves more than one look before any long term plans regarding the Leafs goalie situation can be made. However, Toskala dropped the ball again last night and Cujo served as a decent fill-in for once, but I still hope to see a new tandem after the deadline that includes Pogge. His lateral movement impressed me most and for a tall goalie he gets in the butterfly rather quickly, too.

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  • goldenleafs

    I don’t know about groin injuries, except that it’s a bad deal. How can Toskala go from having a groin injury that “has reached a point where its too painful” to suddenly being put back in net after missing 1 game? Is there something else going on here? If it hurt too much to play Monday, how could it be magically healed enough to play Tuesday?

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  • goldenleafs

    I just think they shoulda gave Pogge back to back. Even if the Leafs didn’t show up Tuesday, you need to see how Pogge handles that… especially since the Atlanta game wasn’t much of a test for him, imo… You need to see how your goaltender handles the good and the bad.

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  • Garrett Bauman

    I like Toskala … but there is no way the Leafs will get a first rounder for him.

    It’s not even his play this year … it’s the fact that he is in his 30s and has never been a starter until last season … and his numbers last season, on the whole, were above-average at best.

    He has one year left on his deal, he was okay as a starter his only year in that role, and has struggled mightily this season. How does any of that equate to a first-round return?

    If I’m looking for a netminder, why would I move a first rounder for Toskala, if Khabibulin is available? Who would better help my team, the until-recently career backup, or the guy who’s been a starter for most of his career, and won a Stanley Cup?

    Just because JFJ gave up a lot for Toskala, doesn’t mean anyone can expect a lot in return for him. His performance simply doesn’t warrant a first-rounder, nor does anything he’s done in his career to date.

    Like I said, I like the guy, I think he is an above-average goaltender who is having a tough season … but above-average and 1st round pick do not, and never will, compute.

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  • Garrett Bauman

    Only way it happens is

    (a) Burke pulls off the sales pitch of the century

    (b) Toskala turns it on from January to March, winning a ton of games in the process. Which of course in turn hurts the Leafs chances in the draft …

    I’d be happy with a second rounder + a 4th … that still may be a bit too optimistic, given his play, but it is a more realistic expectation than a 1st.

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  • Ron Guillet

    I think you underestimate his value, Garrett.

    Most Leafs are doom and gloom, but alot of GM’s will be in the interested in the services of the Finnish goaltender come March. He’s got a little over two months – and considering he’ll play mostly all of the games, that’s alot of time – to raise his game and stand as a top10 goalie once again. He’s got the skill, and it’s not an unrealistic scenario to raise his stats to respectability once more.

    He can do it, and personally, I think he will.

    Can’t wait until the Trade Deadline!

    Merry Christmas all :)

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  • Ron Guillet

    ”Nor does anything he’s done in his career to date”

    Sorry Garrett, but I have to comment on this as well.

    Considering Cristobal Huet garnered a 2nd rnd pick, in a trade where MANY thought he could of gotten a 1st, how can Toskala not get a 1st?

    It’s no secret that Huet is prone to soft goals and is incapable of stealing hockey games.

    Toskala, last season, was hailed as one of the top goaltenders in the league for a big stretch of games. And in the end, he was regarded as a top10 who was more valuable to his team than Sundin.

    Not only that, but some analysts still regard him as a top 10, he just needs to find his game again.

    Toskala deserves the benefit of the doubt over any Leaf on this current squad.

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  • Garrett Bauman

    Look, if I’m an opposition GM, and I’m interested in Toskala (though why I would be right now, I don’t know), all I’ve got to do is point to the Huet deal.

    Yeah, a bunch of media guys thought Montreal could have gotten a 1st. Fact is, they did not … clearly no GM felt that he was worth that. Which is all that matters.

    Statistics do matter in a trade. And Huet has outperformed Toskala. So if he is only worth a 2nd rounder in the eyes of opposition GMs, how is Vesa worth a first? First-rounders are given up for players that GMs believe can be difference-makers in the playoffs, and I don’t buy that Vesa has proven that he can be that guy.

    Look, I’m not knocking him. I like him, I think he is a decent goaltender … certainly his skill set is well above average, but his positioning, and his focus, are consistently inconsistent, at best. He is good, but not great. And that’s what separates him from the goaltenders who are worth a 1st rounder, such as Khabibulin … who, unlike Toskala, has a fair amount of playoff experience.

    I think the equivalent of the Huet deal is what we can expect for Vesa. And I don’t think that’s a bad thing. Leaf fans all want to believe this guy can get a 1st rounder, largely because one was part of the package to acquire him in the first place. But his performance hasn’t equated to that, and that is how other GMs will judge his value.

    You’ll say he plays for a bad team. A fair and valid point. However, I would point out that the only stat that really matters for goaltenders is save percentage. GAA and Wins are false stats … they are impacted by the quality of the team’s defense and offense, moreso than the goaltender’s actual skill. Save %, on the other hand, is the real indicator.

    For instance, on a lousy defensive team that is giving up 40 shots per game, a GAA of nearly 3.00 is not at all unreasonable to expect. That equates to 37 saves on those 40 shots, which adds up to a very solid .925 save percentage. The goaltender has a lousy GAA, but the save percentage indicates that he has been a great performer on a lousy team, and could be a real difference-maker for a good team. Which makes a first round pick a worthwhile return for that goaltender.

    Now let’s look at Vesa Toskala’s numbers.

    30 games played, 13-10-5 record. Respectable, but since he plays on a team that has been scoring a fair bit, it is not a fully convincing stat.

    3.30 GAA. Doesn’t look good, but then again the Leafs have not been the most defensively-sound team this year. Let’s check the shots per game before making a judgment call on this one.

    794 shots against, which equals roughly 26 per game. Which means on average he is stopping between 22 and 23 of 26 shots per game. Or, allowing 3 to 4 goals on 26 shots, on average. That doesn’t exactly spell dependable.

    .882 save percentage. 41st in the league. Which means that the other 29 starting goaltenders, and another 11 backups, are having a better season than he is.

    Why would I, as a GM, give up a 1st round pick for a guy whose save percentage – the only stat that really matters for a goaltender – is worse than every starter in the league, and a third of the backups as well? Especially considering that his experience as a starter is extremely limited? Makes no sense.

    Sorry guys, but the numbers don’t lie. Don’t kid yourselves if you think they’ll get a 1st based on last year’s numbers … a .904 save percentage that had him ranked 31st in the league is decent, but doesn’t exactly set the world on fire.

    GMs focus on the numbers, and will use this year’s performance as leverage in any trade. Which means a 1st rounder is a pipe dream, unless the rival GM happens to be smoking a particular pipe of his own.

    Like I said, I think a deal similar to the one for Huet is the best we can expect. And if we get that, look at the bright side: a 2nd rounder in a deep draft is not all that bad of an acquisition, in and of itself.

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  • Garrett Bauman

    Ron,

    Toronto analysts regard him as a top 10. The same analysts who for the past decade have been trumpeting the Leafs as “just a player away”.

    Vesa’s actual numbers have never been anywhere near the top ten in the league, in any category. Everyone jumped on the “goaltender we’ve been missing” bandwagon because of the ransom JFJ paid to get him. It’s funny how no one seems to remember how those same analysts who called him “Top 10″ in March ’08 were ripping him to shreds in November ’07 for his terrible start to the season.

    I honestly cannot see how anyone is going to pay a first round pick for a goaltender with (a) minimal playoff experience, and (b) whose starting career contains one hot streak that lasted two months, especially when that hot streak is sandwiched by two of the most horrendous first halves by a goaltender in recent memory. It simply isn’t going to happen.

    Goes to show the power of the Toronto media. They’ve sold him as a star player and people have bought it hook line and sinker without even checking the numbers to see if it adds up. And it doesn’t.

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