Points System: Could Schenn Have Been a Duck?

by on March 26, 2009 in Uncategorized - 419 Comments

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With Files from Gil Brown

Brian Burke doesn’t take credit for the Maple Leafs drafting Luke Schenn 5th overall in 2008, but he’s sure glad they did.  Under different circumstances, which we’ll get into over a series of posts, Burke’s Ducks would have been in the mix for the Saskatoon native at the 2008 draft.

Fortune shined on the blue and white allowing them to trade up to 5th overall pick.  There was an associated cost from their original seventh spot, but the end result is a potential future Maple Leafs captain of the Scott Stevens mold.

Unbelievable as it seems; perhaps, even laughable, Schenn, could have been wearing Ducks colors.

The story doesn’t begin in Anaheim, however.  It starts in Edmonton.

On February 26, 2008, NHL trade deadline day, Edmonton sat second last in the Western Conference with 63 points, good enough for a tie for fifth last in the overall standings and occupying a draft lottery spot, much to the giddiness of the Ducks.

Anaheim owned the Oilers first round pick as compensation for the signing of Dustin Penner.  Vindication over poaching Penner couldn’t have worked out better for Burke.  Karma has a funny way of biting NHL GM’s in the butt.

As the calendar flipped to March, nine points separated Edmonton from the final playoff spot.  An 11-5-1 run in March/April gave hope for a playoff spot.  Ultimately eliminated with less than a handful of scheduled games, three points ultimately kept them out of the top eight.

Among the 11 wins, five were in extra time (two shootout, three overtime).

Despite the run, the postseason was not to be for the Oilers and knocked the pick from a top five lottery pick to 12th overall, much to the chagrin of the Ducks and knocking in karma’s teeth.

(Note ** The pick was ultimately flipped to the Buffalo Sabres by way of Los Angeles.)

What does this have to do with the Leafs drafting Schenn?

Toronto, in the 7th spot, traded up via the Islanders to take over 5th to draft Schenn.  They ended up in that position, based on the current point system.  Three-point games, shootout victories, and overtime points.  Loser points … all played a part throughout the league.  It’s perceived parity of the final standings, a by-product of the current point system.

All an illusion.

Edmonton may have only missed the postseason by three points, but their 41 wins landing them 12th from the bottom, included 22 in regulation, and 19 in extra time, most in the NHL (Atlanta/New Jersey were tied for second overall with 15).

The illusion doesn’t begin at the end of the season standings, but in January.

Playoffs in January?

Using a custom program (created by myself and developer/writer Gilbert Brown) to simulate point standings at any user-defined date throughout the season, analysis revealed how the current point system takes in aspects of the game ( i.e. shootouts) that will keep it afloat for years.

The program was originally created to prove my theory that the current point system created an artificial playoff race in January.

With the NFL playoffs under way, and the Super Bowl on the horizon, I thought the point system leached off the NFL playoffs mentality, stoking the fire for games with playoff implications.  After the Super Bowl, the NHL could jack up the playoff implications of games and get butts in seats.  It led directly into the hoopla of the NHL Trade Deadline and picked up even more steam for a stretch run.

Individual franchises marketing games with playoff implications in the dog days of the season.  It’s a marketer’s dream, and owners could buy into that with dollar signs in their eyes.

Results revealed some very interesting isolated scenarios, but nothing to suggest one system is better than the other.

Edmonton may have missed the playoffs by three points, but they were able to market games with playoff implications as far back as January using this point system.  So, too, could Atlanta who was legitimately in the hunt until about the trade deadline.

You think a 3-PT system works better, right?

No.  It works out almost exact results as the current standings at every point in the season, despite some discrepancies.

Reverting back to the pre-loser point ‘old’ point system accurately reflects teams ability to win and takes away the 3-pt games that hurt teams in the hunt for a playoff spot in March/April, right?

Sorry, still no.

Despite complaints against the system and shootouts and loser points, the overall standings do not change much as per the program simulations at each snapshot of the season.

Stamkos a Thrasher?

The point for regulation ties (‘loser point’) was introduced for the beginning of the 1999-2000 season, along with overtime reduction of players from five skaters to four.

The purpose was to introduce an element in the dead puck era enticing teams tied at the end of regulation to open up and go for the win, instead of sitting back and playing for the tie as was happening prior to then, with the fear of losing a guaranteed point.  It was meant as a progressive maneuver in an era of decreased scoring.

Simulating the standings with this ‘old’ point system, the Oilers would have ended up 27th overall with 69 points, tied with the Islanders at the end of the season.  Atlanta, would have finished in last place overall with the chance to draft Steven Stamkos.

Team

GP

W

L

TIE

 

Pts

Atlanta Thrashers

82

19

40

23

 

61

Los Angeles Kings

82

25

43

14

 

64

Tampa Bay Lightning

82

27

42

13

 

67

Edmonton Oilers

82

22

35

25

 

69

New York Islanders

82

25

38

19

 

69

Phoenix Coyotes

82

29

37

16

 

74

Toronto Maple Leafs

82

28

35

19

 

75

Would Toronto have had the chance to draft Schenn under this scenario?  Especially with Anaheim getting such a bonus?

Simulating a 3-PT system (3 Pts for Regulation Win, 2 Pts for Extra-time Win, 1 pt for Extra time loss), returns similar results.  Edmonton finishes in 24th spot, one ahead of the Leafs in 23rd.  The Islanders, however, would have been fourth overall at the draft, with the possibility of Schenn, and Alex Pietrangelo still on the table.

Team

GP

RW

ETW

RL

SOL

OTL

Pts

Atlanta Thrashers

82

19

15

40

6

2

95

Los Angeles Kings

82

25

7

43

3

4

96

Tampa Bay Lightning

82

27

4

42

1

8

98

New York Islanders

82

25

10

38

3

6

104

St. Louis Blues

82

29

4

36

5

8

108

Columbus Jackets

82

29

5

36

8

4

109

Edmonton Oilers

82

22

19

35

4

2

110

Toronto Maple Leafs

82

28

8

35

4

7

111

Would the Leafs have been able to make the deal to acquire that pick?  If so, at what additional cost?

Over the next little while I will dedicate a series of posts to the analysis of the point system, and how each system affects standings at points in the season.  We’ll see why this point system favored the Oilers, and is probably the fairest for the most important NHL personnel.  The owners.

You may be surprised to find that my results lead me a simple conclusion.  The point system in the overall scheme changes nothing.

Detroit General Manager Ken Holland must have come to the same conclusion when he proposed to change end of season tie-breaking measures from Wins, to Regulation Wins.

It’s all about motivation.

Stay tuned …

[email protected]

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  • CarltontheBear

    Interesting read and definitely something I’ve thought about before. It makes you wonder how teams like Colorado and Phoenix could be considered in the playoff race going into the deadline and are now both lined up for top 5 picks.

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  • Wendel

    Nice work as always Gus. Everyone always lamented the 3-pt game, but I wondered if it made much of a difference.

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  • odd man rush

    Gil Brown who cares what a waste of time to write that crap ;could Schenn have been a duck …is that all you can write …………..

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  • Scot Loucks

    I see the sight has garnered it’s own resident troll….. a Mr. Odd Man Rush.
    .
    If you want to troll dude…. you might want to come up with something intelligent to say first :)
    .
    Just a thought.
    .
    Cheers

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  • looshV

    ^
    You clearly missed the point of the article which is more about the “points” in the NHL and whether or not any of those proposed ideas is really significantly different……..is that all you can read……..

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  • CarltontheBear

    Well odd man rush, I hope you didn’t waste your precious time reading reading the insightful and stat based ‘crap’ that Gus has provided us with.

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  • looshV

    Not you Scott but the angry virgin above you

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  • Scot Loucks

    Don’t feed the trolls ladies and gentlemen….. it only brings them back.

    Cheers

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  • http://www.McKeenshockey.com Gus Katsaros

    Yeah Gil Brown wtf?! How could you waste our time typing that crap out?

    I’m gonna have to break your fingers.

    Luv
    Kats

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  • Roacho

    Gus that was great. Your study makes sense and is very interesting. Can’t wait to read the continuation.

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  • Jordan

    This is interesting, but you cant think about it like that. Heres how I look at it….

    Say if team A is 4 points ahead of team B, and they play each other. Team A wins 5-0 and moves 6 points up on team B.

    If you say to yourself “lets work out what it would be if we switch the points up to a different system”. So you switch it up, make a chart and it works out to have both team A and B tied with points. Then you look back at the game that was just played because before the game, team B would have been 2 points up on team A (instead of 4 points back), thus changing EVERYTHING.

    Take in consideration how things like confidence, more or less grit because of the matchup, the way the coach plays the lines and when he plays them, and pressure on certain plays to step up because its a more pivitol game. ANY of these small things could make a small effect on the game, causing a snowball effect to change the final score, cause injurys, or even different call causing different players and coaches to react differently under different pressure or off emotion, or teams just playing harder or more relaxed if their either still in the playoff hunt or out.

    Theres too much to consider that would be different then just simply changing points around, its scary to think about sometimes lol

    I loved the read though, gives me something to do here all day bymyself working in a sheetmetal shop. Keep it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!…..oh and dont read it if you dont like it people, simple as that

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  • Ron Guillet

    God, your articles are such crap. Schenn a Duck? He’s a Leaf if you haven’t noticed! A new point system wouldn’t work, I don’t know why you’re suggesting we do that..

    Moving along…

    Great article, Gus. I’ve often thought about the possibility of implementing a new point system, but you bring up some good points here.

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  • http://www.mckeenshockey.rivals.com Gus Katsaros

    GO WOLVES!!!! Down 3-2 in the series, but have played well enough to be on the other end for the major upset! Bulls have issues with back to back games too, so if Sudbury wins MOnday to tie the series, Tuesday could be an interesting day …

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  • Ron Guillet

    What’s more interesting is that some smug Belleville reporter said that the Bulls would “crush in the Wolves” in his actual news article! The Wolves proved that theory wrong after a convincing 6-2 win. I attended that game, and I’m not afraid to say that the Wolves can certainly bounce back.

    Subban looks worn out (no wonder…he plays like 60 minutes a game!), and Murphy was a fragile goaltender. The Wolves took over with their speed in the neutral zone, and by using their size to crush the Bulls.

    It’s possible to come back, but I’m not getting my hopes TOO high!

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  • neil

    looshV writes: ….Not you Scott but the angry virgin above you
    .
    Thats hilarious, sorry to say. I’m stealing it.
    Like Sam Mitchell used to always say – “if ifs were fifths, we’d all be drunk!”

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  • Micheal Aldred

    Man, I hope the Wolves pull through. Marcus Foligno looked better than Nick on the few times I watched him play.

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  • Ron Guillet

    Definitely. Marcus has the edge physically, and it’s not as if he can’t produce points (1G,1A on Wednesday). The thing I love about marcus is that he can alter the momentum of a game like THAT. A fight, HUGE hits, whatever it takes…he’s a beast.

    And how about Matt “The Loafer” Dias with 4 goals on Wednesday!? Are you kidding? He’s the laziest player on the Wolves and gets four…..FOUR!…goals?

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  • http://www.mckeenshockey.rivals.com Gus Katsaros

    I spoke to Ed Giacomin last season for an interview and he was more impressed with Marcus than Nick, although, (you heard it here first) Nick pots 25-30 goals next season in Ottawa … mark him down as a fantasy sleeper nice and early….

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  • Mike

    Why not bring in a system that gives points for each period and for the game winner.
    If the period is tied, no points.
    Leafs play Sens.
    After period 1–Leafs 2 Sens 1 Leafs 1 point
    After period 2–Leafs 3 Sens 3 Sens 1 point
    After period 3–Leafs 5 Sens 4 Leafs 1 point and 1 point for the win.
    So Leafs get 3 points, Sens 1
    If after 3 it’s Leafs 5 Sens 5, it’s a tie and each team gets 1 point.
    No OT, no shoot out

    On a side note, why spell the American way? It’s coloUr!

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  • Jordan

    I personally like the tie. IF WE HAVE to go to a shootout, a shootout win should only count as a half point.

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  • hockey_guru

    Mike… I think that is a terrible idea. Too many points and confusion involved for the average fan.

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  • CarltontheBear

    Not only that, but you shouldn’t be able to get a point for having 1 good period.

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