MLSE may not block bid for a second Toronto franchise

by on April 29, 2009 in Uncategorized - 51 Comments

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NHLPA executive director Paul Kelly was on HockeyCentral At Noon today, and among other topics he briefly discussed the possibility of a second NHL team coming to Toronto.

When asked why Toronto has not been seriously considered to date as a home for another franchise, despite the enormous fan base and subsequent opportunity to succeed financially, Kelly suggested that MLSE was not the source of resistance.

“I don’t think it’s the Leafs,”  suggested Kelly.  “I don’t think anybody has approached the Leafs with a proposal … but I do think the Leafs would consider it.”

Seriously? There must be a caveat.

“The Leafs would rather see them in the Air Canada Centre than build another arena … it’s not just about hockey, it’s about the circus, it’s about concerts, [and another venue] is going to drive ticket prices down and pull other events out of the building.”

So there you have it.   According to the head of the Players’ Association, the Leafs’ concerns are purely financial.   Wow, what a shocker.  Who would have guessed that Peddie and the Pensioneers would be more interested in making money than the growth and success of the sport?

A second team that had its own arena could charge lower ticket prices, which would force MLSE to do the same lest hockey fans in Toronto decide to throw their support behind the franchise whose games they can actually afford to attend.    In other news:  new scientific testing suggests that pigs may soon be able to fly.

The Leafs’ chief concern, however, seems to be not the potential of lost fans.  After all, there are more than enough corporate bigwigs to fill the ACC, providing the wireless network doesn’t get maxed out.   Rather, their main focus appears to be on the non-NHL events that take place at the ACC throughout the year.

Remember, MLSE owns the building and thus generates a large profit off of the concert circuit.   Already they are competing against the Molson Ampitheatre and the Rogers Centre as two major concert venues.  A potential third major venue would only serve to take away that much more of the ACC’s non-NHL revenue.   However, if a new team was willing to share the ACC with the Leafs (which would include paying MLSE an exorbitant rental fee), MLSE would have little to no opposition to another team in the area.

Interesting.   As with everything in the world of the Maple Leafs, it all comes down to how much money there is to be made or lost.    And so the question begs:  if MLSE isn’t blocking a serious discussion over whether or not a struggling NHL franchise would be better off in Toronto, then who is?  This is where it gets really interesting.

Kelly ducked the question of whether or not NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman was actively blocking the notion of a second Toronto franchise even being discussed.   “That’s a loaded question that I’m going to pass on, I’ll let you put that to the Commissioner himself.”

A loaded question?   Seemed pretty direct to me.    Kelly’s refusal to answer the question speaks volumes.   Bettman’s driving goal, throughout his tenure, has been to grow the game in non-traditional US markets.   It has worked in some areas (Anaheim and Carolina are prime examples), but in most other areas is failing miserably.    But as we’ve all seen time and again, Bettman continues to push toward developing the game in areas where the fan interest is clearly minimal.   In Bettman’s mind, a second Toronto team would not create any new fans, whereas a team in Kansas City or Las Vegas would.

But there appears to be something else at play here that is more important than any of that:  egotism.  If Bettman were to move a southern US team to Canada, one that was either a product of expansion or relocation and is thus one of his pet projects (Phoenix is the team most have suggested would be on the move), that would be tantamount to the Commissioner openly admitting his failure to grow the game in the United States.     And as we all saw during the lockout, Gary Bettman is simply incapable of admitting he has made a mistake.

Nick Kypreos suggested the same thing when talking to Kelly today, in fewer words.    Kelly could have simply said “no, I don’t think Bettman is the problem”, but instead deflected the question.   Why do that, if Bettman isn’t the issue?

Now, I can understand Kelly’s reluctance to publicly suggest that Bettman is the one blocking any internal league discussions on the subject, as he has to be able to work with the Commissioner on a variety of other issue and certainly could do without creating any ill-will.    But Kelly made sure he didn’t deny the question, either.   And there’s probably a reason for that … few would doubt that the Player’s Association would harbor any opposition toward a second Toronto team.   What player doesn’t want to play for a team that is (a) financially sound, (b) is in the epicentre of the endorsement/marketing universe, and (c) has a passionate fanbase that actually cares about the game?

So where does this go now?   In short, nowhere for the time being.   No proposals have been submitted to put a team in Toronto as of yet, and the league seems quite content to continue propping up the Phoenix Coyotes franchise.   For now, anyway.   But that can’t last forever.   Eventually, the league will need to find a buyer for the team, or risk facing contraction.     How much do you want to bet that a Las Vegas proposal would be considered ahead of a Toronto proposal, even if the Toronto proposal came in $100 million ahead?   We already saw that sort of thing happen once when Jim Balsillie tried to buy the Nashville Predators, so I say the chances are pretty good that the NHL is heading toward that exact same dance once more.

Remember, Bettman and the Board of Governers were the ones who blocked the Balsillie deal from going through, even though it would have raised the value of all teams across the league.   Instead, the ownership shares were sold to a fraud artist named Boots who just happened to have a criminal record.   That right there should tell you everything you need to know about how interested Gary Bettman is in moving a team that is representative of his attempt to grow the game in the US to a Canadian market that actually cares about the sport.

In his blind pursuit of growing the sport in non-traditional markets, the NHL Commissioner is actually contributing to the declining financial viability of his own league by refusing to acknowledge established hockey markets where even in a down economy, the teams would stand a very good chance of being profitable.

Although in Gary’s defense, at least the league finally went back to ESPN to negotiate a better television coverage deal.   Nice save, G.

Your thoughts?

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  • king

    I don’t want another team in Toronto… I wouldn’t support them at all, I love the leafs and that’s it no matter how much they suck or how expensive the tickets are.

    I suppose it could work financially for the league but I am against it. Although I am also against the Idea of more teams in non hockey towns like Las Vegas.

    Basically there should be more teams in Canada just not another one in the GTA.

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  • Garrett Bauman

    King:
    I actually agree with you, from a personal standpoint. I think that Winnipeg deserves a team back, and could support it with the right ownership group. I also believe a team could be successful in the Hamilton or Kitchener-Waterloo area … provided you could get the Buffalo Sabres on board (and their say wouldn’t actually apply if the team was located in the north end of K-W).
    .
    That said, I do stand by the argument that another team in Toronto would be of nothing but benefit to the success of the league as a whole. Whereas another non-traditional market would not … the league has been down that road already and the results have been mostly negative. It’s only a matter of time before the Board of Governers starts to consider relocating struggling teams to markets where they might actually stand a chance at being successful.

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  • the Surreal McCoy

    another franchise in TO? if it forces the Leafs to step up, cool, but they’re getting it done now anyway, finally, so another team probably wouldn’t make a difference to me. what i’d like to see is TBay move to Montreal. now THAT would be sweet!

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  • the Surreal McCoy

    forgot to say – very good article Garrett. when i was first reading, i found myself wondering if perhaps Ottawa would be against having another team in TO? lol

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  • http://leafshotstove lilzeke69

    i really dont know about another nhl team in to i have mixed emotions i think it could be an excellent rivalry for our current team their i think another city that would work could be hamilton windsor both could support a team anyways time will tell im just consentrating on my maple leafs and what brian burke has up his sleeve for us god speed to you all

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  • Jes

    Wont be much of a rivalry as I heard somewhere else that they would be a team in the west and that Detroit would really push to come to the East. Detroit coming to the East would be terrible for the east. It would be like only 7 teams can make the playoffs than since the Wings will be making the playoffs for god knows how long.
    .

    I’m not sure how I feel about another team. I wouldn’t be against the idea, but cant see myself cheer for them. But I guess that’s how it is for Mets/Yankee fans.

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  • http://admin Alex Tran

    Very good piece Garrett.

    I know how many people would love to get a 2nd franchise in this region, but I just can’t count myself among them.

    I don’t want to face that tough choice of deciding which team to cheer for.

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  • Blair

    I reallly can’t see another team in Toronto. Especially playing out of the same building that is already branded with maple leafs. How would they change the logo at center ice when the different teams play? How would the home team players feel about sharing a dressing room with another home team – isn’t the feeling of ownership part of the home team advantage? It just makes no sense, logically. However, a team in Hamilton where there is already an arena is both logical and should be of no concern to MLSE financially, since the arena is already there and already competes with the ACC for attractions. I would also suggest a K-W area arena would make sense for that same reason since a new arena in that area would make Copps redundant and archaic in comparison; the new arena would simply take the place of Copps.

    The only problem is the team location name. Kitchener or Hamilton aren’t familiar even to most Canadians… but then again neither was Anaheim or San Jose to most Americans. But how would people feel about the team local just being referred to as Ontario? Similar to the use of Carolina or Florida.

    After that all they need is a cool marketing ploy to attract more casual fans a la the Raptors and their initial campaigns. It’s entirely possible to have the Leafs appeal to hardcore fans and the Ontario… Otters??? with their Otter mascot and symbol of an Otter holding a hockey stick appeal to a younger crowd, which would be more fitting since the new team would probably have more of a family atmosphere than the Leafs corporate prestige. MLSE has nothing to lose and the addition of another heated rivalry, this one only ‘cross-town, would be more bankable than that same team being located anywhere else.

    If there were any time where another team in Ontario made sense, it would be during tough economic times. When the NHL starts to feel the pinch financially they will be pressured by the board of governors to find a way to inject revenue in to the system, and there is no easier way than another team in Ontario.

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  • http://leafs.hockeyanalysis.com Steve

    The thing that doesn’t make sense about the Stadium issue you raised is the following: It isn’t really feasible for MLSE to host games for another NHL franchise at the ACC. They already have two other co-tenants in their own NBA franchise the Toronto Raptors, and the Toronto Rock of the NLL. If you toss in all the concerts… I’m not sure there are enough dates to go around.

    There is only one stadium in North America that hosts 3 teams in the NBA and NHL, and that’s the Staples Centre, which hosts the Clippers, the Lakers, and the Kings. They also host the LA Sparks of the WNBA. That’s 4 pro teams, and concerts. In the end it would mean either a lot of afternoon/evening alternating games… and perhaps a lot of long road trips for the teams involved.

    It is physically possible… but god that would be a hassle I just don’t know if it makes a lot of sense to me personally. It would also require them to somehow paint the ice twice? That seems a bit cumbersome to me. Maybe I’m just looking for reasons to think twice about it… but I seriously don’t think it is ever going to happen.

    Why not put another team in Montreal while they’re at it? or Vancouver? I mean would it really be all that different? Contraction makes more sense… and fewer games. But I don’t see the teams sacrificing on the revenue of lost games played.

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  • Garrett Bauman
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  • Roacho

    I don’t think the true debate should’ve ever been about whether another team would be viable in Toronto. What they should be studying are the impacts such a move would have on the franchises surrounding the city, such as Buffalo and Ottawa. Ottawa’s no powerhouse of a market.
    ~
    @Garrett Bauman
    “I think that Winnipeg deserves a team back, and could support it with the right ownership group.”
    What, an owner that’s content with losing money year in and year out, good luck finding one. There’s a big difference between deserving and actually being able to support a team in Winnipeg. Those days are over, although I liked the old Jets, Manitoba does not have the corporate support to uphold a franchise in Winnipeg with today’s weak Canadian dollar and escalating salaries.
    ~
    There’s a reason why the other major sports don’t have a team in Las Vegas. The reason? Las Vegas is a city of tourism, there are very few permanent residents in that city. That’s why they are so profitable, because people go there, blow their money and then go back home. It’s a city where most of the residents don’t have debt, but with such a high turnover of residents in the city. I would argue that it would be extremely difficult to 1) sell season tickets 2) build a strong local fan base 3) make hockey standout in the desert with all of the other spectacles constantly going on. If Bettman goes this route, I think it’ll be a clear act of desperation.
    ~
    Retraction may be the only option if a handful of franchises are not viable. As for bringing another one to Ontario, I’d say Waterloo, is just far enough to not piss off the Maple Leafs hardcore fanbase. Although Gary would seem to like to bring the league to 32 teams, I think it’s crucial that the cities be stable before adding to this mess. Phoenix could move to Waterloo. I would try moving a team to Kansas City. I would also like to know Cleveland’s proximity from Columbus, because they have a tremendously successful AHL team in the Barons, there could be a potential market there. Florida, Phoenix and Nashville are enduring hard times. California has been exploited, I don’t see Texas being able to support another team, but maybe Missouri could handle another one? I would also like to know the demographics of Hartford. I’d think the Whalers name would have to be changed with today’s politically correct world. Maybe the Hartford Golden Seals. I like it already. LOL

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  • Garrett Bauman

    Good points, Roacho.
    .
    The only point I would disagree with would be Winnipeg. I point you to the Edmonton Oilers as a perfect example. They were on the brink for a number of years, but a consortium group was able to keep them afloat … and profitable. Under their new owner, Katz, they are now a stable and viable franchise even as the oil industry that supports much of Edmonton’s economy has been suffering.

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  • Blair

    By the way, why does the NHL even really have conferences and divisions? They’re really just superficial groupings to help organize rivalries. You can easily see how reformatting the divisions can be done when you have obvious pairings already.

    EAST
    Boston, NYI, NYR, Washington, NJ.
    Philli, Pitts, Colombus, Chicago, Detroit.

    NORTH
    Toronto, Toronto 2, Ottawa, Buffalo, Montreal.
    Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Minni, San Jose .

    SOUTH
    Colorado, Dallas, Anaheim, LA, St.Louis.
    Florida, Tampa, Carolina, Nashville, Atlanta.

    Schedule is two games against every team (58 games) with an additional game against each team in the other division of your conference (10 games) and an additional two games against each team in your division (16 games) = 84 regular season games.

    All-star game (if they choose to continue the tragedy, rather than an outdoor classic) would return to North America versus the World, which was much more entertaining from a personal pride stand point.

    3 Conferences, 6 divisions. The playoffs are the top 4 from each conference play the first-round intra-conference. The second round is also intra-conference. This will intensify rivalries enough that the regular schedule can be more balanced. The third round features the 3 winners from the second round, plus one team that lost but that is getting a second chance (this will be determined on which of the losing teams played the most games, and if there’s a tie, which had the best goals for-against differential, and so on, as a tie-breaker) with the team with the most wins (and best goals for-against differential, and so on, as a tie breaker) facing the wild card (so the most rested versus the least rested). This will help keep interest in finishing off opponents quickly and dominantly. Finally, the top two emerge to fight for Stanley.

    It would never been done because it’s too dramatic a change. But I think I would find it more interesting. Anyone else?

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  • Garrett Bauman

    Also, a second team in Toronto would have next to no impact on Ottawa or Buffalo. The GTA is the most heavily-populated region in Canada. Both Toronto teams would sell out, every night, guaranteed, with plenty of fans unable to get tickets to see either team. You’ve got to figure that of the 5 million plus who live in the GTA, there’s more than the 40,000 or so hockey fans that the ACC and another arena would seat who want to see live games.
    .
    In the meantime, the fans from the area who drive to Ottawa or Buffalo to attend Sens and Sabres games tend to be Sens and Sabres fans. The presence of a second Toronto team will not change their willingness to travel to watch their favorite team. A fan is a fan is a fan.
    .
    As for fans of TML, most Leafs fans only make the drive to Buffalo or Ottawa when Toronto is playing a road game in one of those cities, so I don’t see how it impacts negatively there, either. Those who go to Buffalo regularly because it’s cheaper to catch an NHL game there may go to the new Toronto team instead, sure, but there are more fans trying to get tickets than there are available tickets, so again I don’t see how this would be an issue either.

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  • HBM

    @ Roacho sorry but your comment about another Ohio team makes no sense with Columbus not being a strong franchise itself. They need to give a little more time for the fanbase to catch there.

    I think that Winnipeg would be a good place to try again in the future. For right now its got to be the GTA or the Tri Cites (Kitcener Waterloo Cambridge). London is to far south, Hamilton same thing and Windsor is to close to Detroit. There are hardcore Hockey fans here in Kitchener Waterloo and its kind of the middle ground between all the cities posted above to make a great hockey market.

    If you want to just throw cities that might be able to support a franchise why not look at close to the border in the west such as a Seattle or Portland.

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  • CarltontheBear

    I agree with the comments that if there is going to be a team in Southern Ontario it should be in Kitchener-Waterloo and since nobody outside of Ontario has ever heard of K-W it should just be called Ontario.

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  • Schenn

    Nah, wheres the pride in that?? If K-W gets a team, call them Kitchener and let the rest of North America look at a map to find out where it is!!

    That being said, I’d also like to see a team in Winnepeg and I believe Quebec could certainly support another team, so bring back the Nordiques!

    If Bettman is afraid of moving a team from a non-traditional US hockey market in Canada, then jsut make them expansion teams and move the non-traditional teams to better hockey hotbeds in the US, which do exist.
    I’m thinking Tampa Bay and Florida could combine to be one team, with the other moving up the coast back to Hartford. Either that or re-locate Atlanta.
    While I was at it I’d also move Phoenix up to Seattle.

    West/Clarence Campbell:
    Central/Norris
    Toronto, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis
    Winnepeg, Minnesota, Columbus, Dallas

    Pacific/Smythe
    Vancouver, Colorado, Calgary, Edmonton
    San Jose, Anaheim, Los Angeles, Seattle

    East:
    North-East/Adams
    Montreal, Boston, Kitchener, Buffalo
    Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Quebec, Ottawa

    Atlantic/Patrick
    Two of Atlanta/Florida/Tampa Bay, Carolina, Washington
    New York R., New York I., New Jersey, Hartford

    For playoffs I’d give the top 2 teams in each division a buy and have 3 play 6 and 4 play 5 in a three game mini-series to decide who moves on to play the top 2 seeds in their division.
    While I was at it, I’d also go back to the old Clarence Campbell and Prince of Wales Conferences with the Norris, Smythe, Adams and Pattrick Divisions!!

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  • betterforsome

    Some great points have been made already, so I just want to chime in and say “fire Bettman.” That nasally weasle has been digging his own grave for years now, and while the end won’t be as soon or as humiliating as I’d like, his days in hockey are numbered. Thank god.

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  • Wregget

    If this is Bettman’s ego standing in the way for a second franchise in the GTA, I hope the Board of Governors slaps him upside his head.

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  • Jordan

    I dont want another team in Toronto but oh well. Only important thing is that Winnipeg gets one first because they had to fold due to money and with the cap era they could survive for sure

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  • Wendel

    Good article Garrett. I think it would be great if the GTA got another team, as it would help strengthen the league. What’s good for the league is good for the Leafs. I think there are more than enough Leaf fans that MLSE need not worry in that sense, but some great points with regards to the other events that are so important to their revenue stream. I would cheer for both teams without a doubt, but the Leafs would always be the team I “live and die” with, for better or for worse it seems.

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  • neil

    Good article

    The followers here are poorly informed.

    Oh, the boss is coming! Go Hamilton!

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  • wendel over mats

    Interesting stuff ….York St. Pats? Durham Dunlops? Ontario Beavers?

    My mind hurts.

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  • canucksnaphook

    Please let them send a NHL team back to Winnipeg !! They deserve it the most. To have two teams in Toronto would actually be kinda weak. Its like we couldnt win a Cup with the Leafs so we increased the odds and got ourselves a second team. I dont like it one bit.

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  • Big T

    I would love another team in Toronto. I would also love another team back to Winnipeg.

    While were at it……..put one in Hamilton OR Kitchener/Waterloo also. As long as they are all in the same division………..gives Leafs 15 “away” games within 5 hours drive.

    - Create the Canadian East division of 3 teams in GTA plus Ottawa and Montreal.
    - Create the Canadian (North) West division of Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Seattle.

    Right now there is………Phoenix, Nashville, Atlanta, Florida up for grabs (and some say Tampa not too far behind).

    Phoenix = Winnipeg
    Florida = Woodbridge/Vaughn/Richmond Hill/Downsview (Yorkdale)
    Nashville = Kitchener/Hamilton
    Atlanta = Houston (4th largest market in the US after NY, LA and Chicago)

    Put a team in Seattle, Las Vegas and Milwaukee/Green Bay (2 expansion teams and a team moving).

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