Chicago 7, Vancouver 5. Goodbye Mats Sundin.
Mats Sundin’s season with the Vancouver Canucks, his chase for the 2009 Stanley Cup that brought him out of pseudo-retirement, and possibly his NHL career, ended tonight with the Canucks’ elimination from the playoffs at the hands of the young Chicago Blackhawks.
And now the “future of Sundin” questions, and subsequent “will-he-or-won’t-he” Favrian (or is it Favresque?) soap opera will surely begin anew.
Sundin, after all, is a free agent this off-season. Despite Vancouver’s offer of $20 million for 2 years still standing at the time he signed, Sundin instead took a 1 year, $5 million deal for the balance of this season. Which means, of course, that he is unrestricted and free to do as he wishes.
It could be that he retires from the game, as his close friend Markus Naslund recently did.
It could be that he hems and haws for half a season again, as Teemu Selanne and Scott Neidermayer have also done.
It could be that he signs elsewhere for another shot at a Cup. Sure would fit in well with Detroit, and that Eastern schedule would be more favorable (the reason he put off signing with Vancouver for as long as he did was to allow for most of the heavy travel to the East to be gone from the schedule).
Or, it could be that he signs on for a farewell tour with the Toronto Maple Leafs, as so many other former Leafs’ stars have done in the past.
I must ask: what do you think about that possibility, Leaf Nation?
Before you reply, consider the following:
1. The Maple Leafs roster is currently devoid of leadership, and veteran experience, especially up front. They do not have a #1 centre, and there are no guarantees they can land one in free agency. So you could argue a return to the blue and white (albeit somewhat weakly) on the basis of need.
2. Brian Burke won’t blow the cap in free agency – he has been very clear about his concerns regarding an expected cap decrease in 2010 – and Mats Sundin would come relatively cheap ($4 – $5 million) on a 1 year deal. So you could argue a return to the blue and white (somewhat more strongly) on a fiscal-responsibility basis.
3. The ownership of the Maple Leafs has a history of bringing back its former stars for farewell tours. Wendel Clark comes to mind. As does Doug Gilmour’s abbreviated return to the blue and white. And remember how hard they tried to re-acquire Gary Roberts? It is not a reach, by any stretch, to suggest that ownership may exert some pressure to bring back Sundin for a final go-around, given their history on the matter. Of course, whether or not Burke would do it is anyone’s guess. Then again, Pat Quinn – who is a similar personality to Burke – brought back Gilmour and Clark. So you could argue a return to the blue and white (very strongly) on the basis of the team’s history in regard to its former stars.
It should be mentioned that Leafs’ GM Brian Burke was heavily rumoured to be interested in acquiring Mats Sundin two trade deadlines ago when he was the GM of Anaheim. Just sayin’.
Now, I’m not suggesting for a moment that I think bringing back Sundin would be a good idea, or the best approach for this team moving forward. Personally, I feel the best way for a team to move forward is to keep looking ahead as opposed to behind. Further, they will likely struggle to make the playoffs next year, so would it make sense for Sundin to come back just so he can retire as a member of the Leafs, even if they have next to no shot at the Stanley Cup?
It’s a question that is actually much more difficult to answer than it first appears. Many fans (myself included) feel it’s time for Sundin to either retire or pursue a contract with a Cup-contending team, but it is quite possible that his long-standing desire to retire in a Leafs sweater could lead him to seek out one final contract with the Maple Leafs.
In short, I have serious doubts that he will actually wind up back in Toronto – my guess is he retires and moves in next door to Naslund – but at this point I wouldn’t be willing to put anything past Burke & Co., either.
However, my own views aside, I am bringing this topic up because now that Vancouver is out, and Sundin is a free agent, these questions will undoubtably be asked all summer long. And surely, certain members of the media will complain about the soap opera beginning again, but the truth is they all love it. It’s a deep long-running saga, with strong emotions tied to it on all sides, and (frankly) it will give them something to write about for the ever-passionate and insatiable Maple Leafs fan base.
So I’ll jump the gun and ask: what do you think about all this? Will Mats Sundin retire? Will he sign elsewhere? Will he go fly fishing for another half-season before doing so? And if he does return to the NHL … will he return to Toronto?
Have fun with this one, folks … I’m looking forward to what you have to say. You had to figure the big Swede would be a topic here again, sooner or later.
garrettbauman@mapleleafshotstove.com
May 12th, 2009 at 12:18 am
I love Mats, I always have, and as a Life-Long Leaf fan I would love to have retire in our uniform… but…
It won`t help our team moving forward, we need to get younger and begin to rebuild. In a non-cap era, I would sign him in a heart beat, but in the cap-era, every dollar counts.
In a closing note, Mats, wish you best, you are a class act and when I met you once in a Timmies, to me, at the time, as a 16 year old hockey fan, it is one of my best memories. Good luck, and please leave gracefully don`t drag this out
May 12th, 2009 at 12:27 am
I hear you, Chris. The “but” in all of this is that this past year was the rebuilding year. Whether we as fans agree or not, MLSE will be pushing for a playoff berth in the upcoming season. As will Wilson and Burke – they’ve both made that clear in various interviews this past year. So if that is indeed the case, then they are better with Mats than without him. IF they are gunning for a playoff berth, then a 1 year deal won’t hurt the club at all.
May 12th, 2009 at 12:38 am
@Chris:
Personally, I agree with your sentiments. But on the flip side, I wouldn’t put it past Burke to at least consider the option.
@Gerard:
As much as I don’t want to see that happen, it is entirely possible that it could. Wonder what the reaction in Toronto would be, if it did?
May 12th, 2009 at 12:44 am
Your point number 3 ‘before posting’ remark is absolutely out of this world. Do you think Brian Burke is the kind of GM who cares about the Leafs past? Sundin offers nothing for the Leafs in terms of a plan for the future. The response in terms of the fanbase would be one of ambivalence, if not anxiety.
May 12th, 2009 at 12:58 am
@Goose:
I’m saying we don’t know what will happen – but we do know what has happened in the past. I’m saying that while I don’t personally believe it will happen, I certainly will not claim that such a scenario could never happen, because it has happened previously.
May 12th, 2009 at 1:11 am
I would welcome him back to what would a one year deal do but help the team win. They aren’t going to tank (sorry kids but its time to wake up). So the best center that you can let come play for 4-5 mil and only have one year is not an issue. The only way I don’t do that is if Burke grabs a bunch of salary for picks during the draft.
How does Sudin cause a step backwards. What about this scenario.
Bring back Sudin if Schenn or Kane are drafted. Let them spend a year with Sundin as thier mentor and have some star power to bring in some free agents (i.e. the “Monster if he hasn’t made a decision by that point). If a move up happens with moving Kaberle then move Stajan with him to free up space at D/C and try and grab Cowen(if the 7th is gone). Then sign Jay-Bo dump some more dmen for middle round picks in this year and next such as Kubina, Van Ryn, and you got yourself a solid team in youth and leadership. I think that would be a good way to keep everyone smiling.
May 12th, 2009 at 1:15 am
Edit (the 7th can be swapped with PHX to grab Cowen and have a move up some other way to 5th for Schenn or Kane)
May 12th, 2009 at 2:15 am
I love Sundin, met him multiple times. But as an organization, we must move on, we must let the new leader emerge from the team. i.e Luke Schenn. We need to draft well (Matt Duchene all the way), then develop them through our farm system. We have some great kids coming up (Tlusty, Stapleton, etc), and we need them to learn from their mistakes in order for Toronto to be a contender again.
Of course, it would be nice for Sundin to retire as a Leafs, but i think he already done enough for the city of Toronto and Toronto Maple Leafs, that doesn’t matter where he go, he will always be a Leafs, and always wearing the Blue and White. Thanks for everything, Mats!
May 12th, 2009 at 6:47 am
The Leafs have always tried to bring popular former players back for a last hoorah (see Wendel Clark, Doug Gilmour and Curtis Joseph, to name a few). This sentimental factor keened interest for a few games, as Leaf fans drooled with nostalgia…These players turned out to be past their prime, ineffective, and did not improved the team one bit. I cannot see Sundin being any different – especially after a subpar regular season and playoff run. It’s not that I don’t like Mats, but this would be the typical “Maple Leaf reuninoin story” which has made our team unsucsseful for the last 40 years…
May 12th, 2009 at 7:12 am
The Leafs, and Leafs fans need to stop living in the past!!
May 12th, 2009 at 7:34 am
Although I find Mats could potentially get in shape and play another solid season. Vancouver doesn’t give him a legit opportunity to win, however he’s free to seek a contender that wants him. I have a gut feeling Mats will pack it in and we will all congratulate him on a very good career.
May 12th, 2009 at 7:38 am
I also have a lot of respect for Mats but I’m not prepared to take this step backward. I would sign him on the assumption he plays no games and retires a leaf.
May 12th, 2009 at 7:45 am
I can forgive him, I just don’t think he fits the team right now. The Leafs brought back Clark and Gilmour when they thought they had contending teams that needed an extra spark. They’re still far from that right now, and I’m not sure why Mats would want to come back and play a final year on a rebuilding team.
If Burke has the $6M to spend, he should spend it on someone who will be here in a few years when the team has a chance to be good.
May 12th, 2009 at 7:55 am
F-off Mats
In the words of Tom Petty…..Don’t come ’round here no more
You left us high and dry, and I’m glad you didnt even come close to getting your cup. Karma buddy
May 12th, 2009 at 7:55 am
Leafs fans please forget the past and move on ,my God how brain dead are you guys . Almost make’s me ashame to be a Leaf fan .I loved Sundin to but its overrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. please please pleaseeeeeeeeeeeeeeee. move on..
May 12th, 2009 at 8:23 am
He’s done. His days with the Leafs are done. Burke won’t even go there.
May 12th, 2009 at 8:31 am
the_cause2000
Harsh words for a man that bleed more blue than you ever will.
I think you need to adjust you viewpoint on Mats. He will go down as one of the leafs greatest ever…
I for one am proud that he was our Capt, and would take him back in a sec….
Althought I dont think brining him back is the right move….
May 12th, 2009 at 8:54 am
@ Odd Man Rush,,,,,,,,,,,say no more, I agree 100%!!!
May 12th, 2009 at 9:02 am
Honestly, who cares about Mats Sundin anymore? We went through all this shit for six months last year and he signed in Vancouver. Any loose ends tying Sundin to Toronto have been tied up.
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It is over with. Done with. Time to move on. Bringing Sundin back to the Leafs is wrong on so many levels. I will just comment on the things you noted to keep in mind:
..
1. Mats Sundin is no longer a #1 centre
2. “and Mats Sundin would come relatively cheap ($4 – $5 million) on a 1 year deal” That is speculation. Keep in mind he signed a $4-5 million deal with the Canucks for HALF a season. I wouldn’t put any weight in expecting the selfish Swede to come cheap.
3. Management has made the MISTAKE in bringing back past Leaf stars. How well has it worked out for them? Gilmour played one game. Cujo had a pretty lackluster season this year. And you can still retire #13 even if he doesn’t end his career in some force-fed farewell tour in the blue and white.
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The question wasn’t nearly as hard to answer as you suggest. The Sundin era is finished. Let’s keep it that way and look FORWARD to a bright Leafs future, instead of looking back on a miserable Leafs past.
May 12th, 2009 at 9:08 am
I actually thought about this quite a bit. There’s no doubt Mats skates with a limp now, yet surprisingly, he still manages to chip in some offense on the power play. You’d have to be concerned thought that he’d be taking away quality ice time from developing players that could use the experience.
On balance, I’d only sign him if he was around late in the season and you thought you were in the play-offs and you needed some power play savvy.
That’s a lot of ifs…he’ll probably be somewhere else come January.
May 12th, 2009 at 9:17 am
“Sure would fit in well with Detroit, and that Eastern schedule would be more favorable (the reason he put off signing with Vancouver for as long as he did was to allow for most of the heavy travel to the East to be gone from the schedule).”
Last time I checked, Detroit was in the western conference.
May 12th, 2009 at 9:48 am
@lister
I don’t think he was implying Detroit is in the east, I think he was going for Detroit or a team in the east.
May 12th, 2009 at 9:50 am
If Burke signs Sundin I will renounce all association with the Leafs. I will pawn my jerseys, pack up my belongings, and find a new team that is focussed on winning.
Sundin is old, did you see him play in Van-city? He’s half the speed as the next-slowest guy on the ice. I like to think I’m sentimental but bringing Sundin back even for leadership reasons, would be a giant step back in the development of our team.
The fact this is even being discussed, frankly it makes me sick.
May 12th, 2009 at 10:22 am
http://www.fan590.com/more.jsp?content=20090512_091739_6088
May 12th, 2009 at 10:23 am
There’s something to be said for having Sundin be around to mentor whatever young gun we draft (Duchene, Schenn, Taveres, who knows) but, I agree with the general senitment on this board. It is probably not the right move to bring him back. However, if it happens, I’ll cheer my ass off for Mats, he’s earned it.
May 12th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Bring him back why not….
May 12th, 2009 at 10:27 am
Some harsh words for a former Leafs great. The guy kept us on the edge of our seats for many years. Let’s show a little respect. Like his thought process or not, this is a business and after 13 years of leading this franchise it seemed the Leafs and Sundin thought it was best to part ways and it was for the best. I have no ill feelings toward Mats, he made us proud when he was here and left us with great memories. So he declined to get traded, it’s his career and he had NO obligation to help this team get better from a managerial standpoint. Maybe if Leafs management over the years didn’t sell the farm continually we would have had a strong supporting cast to support the big swede. It was not fair to pin our hopes on an aging veteran and then expect him to save the day by letting himself get traded. What a joke. I don’t blame Fletcher for trying, but no blame should be put on Mats.
May 12th, 2009 at 10:29 am
@ JMAC:
SUNDIN WILL GO DOWN AS THE BIGGEST HYPOCRITE TO EVER WEAR A LEAFS JERSEY! I will refer back to thecause_2000′s post…
“F-off Mats
In the words of Tom Petty…..Don’t come ’round here no more
You left us high and dry, and I’m glad you didnt even come close to getting your cup. Karma buddy”
This is EXACTLY right… he slapped us in the face thinking he was bigger and better than the team. Mats Sundin is a selfish prick and there is no way in hell we should have him back on this team. I know you all love Mats Sundin and I used to be a HUGE Sundin fan, but he fucked us HARD! There’s absolutely no reason he couldn’t have just accepted a trade last deadline to take an extra cup run with Vancouver! Not only did he not waive, he got the other NTC guys to stand pat and not waive theirs too!!
Gee, Mats Sundin, thanks a lot you greedy asshole, I hope you go to Ottawa or Montreal so we can boo your ass 8 times a year.
May 12th, 2009 at 10:34 am
@ roacho:
“Maybe if Leafs management over the years didn’t sell the farm continually we would have had a strong supporting cast to support the big swede. It was not fair to pin our hopes on an aging veteran and then expect him to save the day by letting himself get traded”
The difference is everybody knew the Leafs were starting to go in the right direction and build a team with a strong supporting cast and young guys. Sundin knew the direction of the franchise and when a guy plays for a team for 13 years and is the heart and soul, you’d think he wouldn’t mind giving back and taking a trade to give himself an extra cup chance. After playing that many years and accepting a trade, he would be like Clark, who got traded and is still revered as one of hte greatest Leafs ever… AND NOBODY DENIES THAT! A guy who is the absolute heart and soul of the team WALKS AWAY… it just shows how much he really cared of Toronto.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:14 am
@ Wendel Warrior
“There’s something to be said for having Sundin be around to mentor whatever young gun we draft (Duchene, Schenn, Taveres, who knows)”
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Sundin was never a very good mentor to our young stars when he was here, how would this change now? Can you name one young player to have an impact on the team while Sundin was our leader?
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@ Roacho
It has nothing to do with what Mats had done in the past. Yes he will go down in history bla bla bla, that has nothing to do with it. We are moving forward, not backward.
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The Sundin Era is over. It ended when he signed in Vancouver, it ended when the ACC gave him his standing ovation. Time to move on fellas.
End of story.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:15 am
What’s the point in reliving the Sundin days anyways? Was it really a better time when he was here?
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It wasn’t any better than it is now. So why bother?
May 12th, 2009 at 11:16 am
The closest we got the Cup finals since Gilmour and Clark was because of Gary Roberts and Curtis Joseph in 2002. Sundin barely played in the playoffs that year. We got that far in spite of him, not because of him.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:32 am
It’s Favresque
One more go around would be great, I would personally love it JUST to see him retire a Leaf.
But it just doesn’t work. Not for Mats and not for the Leafs. Counter productive for both sides. Taking a roster spot from a kid, who may not exactly look up to Mats. THe coach isn’t a big fan. The time has come and gone, time to move on.
Christ it sounds like a bloody divorce.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:34 am
No way would I bring Sundin back, he had his chance to help this teams future out by waiving his no-trade clause and move to a team in contention for a Cup, two years ago and exercised his right to block any trades.
I don’t have a big problem with him doing that, however I do have a problem with his reasoning. He stated that he wanted to retire as a Leaf and that he didn’t wanna join a team mid-season to take a run at a Cup and that he wanted to be with a team from training camp. Then he goes out and signs with another team and halfway through the season, completely going against the two reasons he gave.
I’d sooner seen the 5 million it’d cost to bring him back put towards signing Camalerri, Gaborik or the Sedins!!
May 12th, 2009 at 11:55 am
@hockey_Guru
So what you are saying is loyalty is a terrible thing. He didnt want to leave the team, he though they could have made the playoffs…which they almost did.
He didnt come back becuase of how things were handled, he was vilified by people like you for excersising the contractual right, which he earned and was granted by the people making the ultimate decisions.
I highly doubt he forced the others not the waive, and why should they, they all took less money, witht he exception of McCabe to play in Toronto in exchange for the right not to be traded unless they wanted to….evidently they didnt want to move….is tthat really a bad thing…
and if we should have traded them, as you say we should, why did Cliff not pull the trigger on kabs and kubina on draft day…you know why?…..cause they are good players and we cant afford to replace them!
The leafs handeled the whole thing way too publically, and that is why they didnt waive, because of the stronge arm tactics they organization tried.
Sundin changed his mind in the off-season about playing, the leafs didnt want him back, dont kid your self, there was an offer ont he table for him to come back, but face the reality, he was not welcome, nor do I get the impression he wanted to have anything to do with the brass running the club.
ultimately he left under bad circumstances, but you and I and everyone else will never know what really went down.
But to discard everything that he did for the organization and the community is a travesty…..I believe you have a thing or two to learn from our once Capt, loyalty.
He deserves better than what people have throwen his way, have some respect.
May 12th, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Just heard on Hockey Central that Burke is talking with the Lightning about the possibility of a trade involving the 2nd overall pick and Ryan Malone for a package involving the 7th overall pick.
If this is true, can anybody see this deal going down?
TO TAMPA BAY:
Tomas Kaberle or Pavel Kubina and 7th overall pick
TO TORONTO:
Ryan Malone and 2nd overall pick
The deal makes sense, since the Lightning unload Malone’s contract, gain a cheap defenseman in Kaberle and still have a chance at drafting Cowen or another future star defenseman with the 7th overall pick.
If this goes down it’d be interesting to see who Burke would take if the Islanders take Tavares 1st overall. I’m thinking Burke would have to go for a forward in Matt Duschene.
May 12th, 2009 at 12:27 pm
@lister: they play in the West, but because of divisional alignments there is less travel in Detroit’s schedule than Vancouver’s.
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@Schenn:
I heard 7th for 2nd + Malone. Basically the Lightning would swap picks with the Leafs on the condition that the Leafs do them a favor in picking up Malone’s contract. Similar to how the trade deadline deal went down. That is the kind of financial disparity the Lightning are rumoured to be in.
May 12th, 2009 at 12:43 pm
What a steal that’d be, allowing us to trade Kaberle and Kubina for two more 1st round pick.
I’d also be targeting Phoenix and Atlanta, since they both seem to be in financial trouble and are both rumoured to be on the move.
As for Sundin playing in Detroit, would it really be that much less travel?
May 12th, 2009 at 12:47 pm
@Schenn
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I think that’s a bit too light of a package from the Leafs end. Tampa would most likely want some other pieces, i.e. some young wingers. I just hope none of the other pieces are Schenn or Tlusty
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how about: To: Toronto: 2nd overall, Malone, & Prospal (2 massive contracts)
To Tampa: Kaberle, White, both 2nd rounders, and the Leafs’ first rounder in 2010?
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Then the Leafs can draft Duchane/Tavares and Schenn/Cowen… and let the ‘gizzing in the pants’ begin
May 12th, 2009 at 12:50 pm
@ Hockey_Guru
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totally agree, fakkk Sundin… I keep hearing comments like ‘he bled blue and white’…. sure, I can believe that, but what did he accomplish? great players make other players around them great… Sundin didn’t raise anyone’s level of play to any significant level…
… all the talk about Sundin had no one to play with is also BS… Mogilny, Nolan, Roberts, Tucker, Berizen… these guys were solid top 6 forwards for the most part
May 12th, 2009 at 1:05 pm
Sundin didn’t win us a cup, but who in the last 40 years has? I think his hemming and hawing last summer and going into the season was ridiculous, but as far as not waving his NMC, thats his right. He took hometown discounts as long as a NMC was included. If you wanna be pissed about that, blame JFJ. Personally I don’t think Sundin fits in with the direction of this team anymore, but I sincerly wish him the best, and think that we all should.
Also, No way we get Tampa’s 2nd pick without giving up Lucky #7. There is a drop in talent after the first 7 or 8 players in this draft, no way any team allows the Leafs 2 bites at that apple. Unless the Leafs are paying through the nose, ie. Shenn and a 2010 1st-rounder.
May 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
as a long time leaf fan in the west…I would not want Sundin back.He could have helped the team at the trade deadline last year ,but his Mukoka five friendship seemed more important.
then he goes to the highest bidder at a time conveinent for him!!! that’s leadership no thanks. Steve Yzerman would never sell our thats a leader…spend 5 mill on someone that will be here
a few years or on Jay-Bo
May 12th, 2009 at 2:05 pm
@Karm and Schenn, Tampa now wants Schenn in the deal.. OMG http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2009/05/12/leafs_lightning_trade_talks/
May 12th, 2009 at 2:06 pm
SELL OUT NOT SELL OUR
May 12th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
and we take Malone also? no thanks also what has Traveres done ..really think about it..for every Lemeiux etc there is a Daigle ! Schenn will be the corner block of our defence ..see who Islanders select and make a move for Duschene then
May 12th, 2009 at 2:25 pm
@ Mizuno
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L Schenn + B Schenn + Kaberle for Hedman/Duchane
so in other words:
L Schenn, B Schenn, Zack Kassian, 2nd rounder + 3rd rounder (Kaberle value)
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HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL NOOOOOOOOOOO
May 12th, 2009 at 2:37 pm
As a Leaf and Sundin fan, I have to say it’s time for Mats to hang em up. I live on the left coast and have had to endure watching him play this season. it is really sad to see how far he has fallen. He looks slow and uninterested in playing particularly in traffic. Do what they do in all sports, sign him and let him retire. Good luck Mats and thanks for the great years in T.O.
May 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
I hope Burke laughed in Tampa’s face for asking for Luke Schenn.
I’m not even sure Burke would trade Schenn straight up for the 1st overall pick, as he stated he was offered a lottery pick for him and turned it down. He also said it’d take about 10 first round picks to get Schenn outta town.
I’d offer no more than Kubina or Kaberle and our first for Malone and their first.
May 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
maybe if the deal is Schenn and Kabs and we keep our 7th….but that is never happening
May 12th, 2009 at 2:40 pm
P.S.
I think it’s about time somebody starts a new blog on the Tampa Bay – Toronto Trade Talks!
May 12th, 2009 at 2:43 pm
I would agree to almost everything other then Schenn. If we give him up its a huge step backwards. I dont thing thats the case because Tampa is not that stupid to ask. Kaberle, our 7th, and a prospect…..then take salary back with the 2nd overall pick is all I would do. If we dont get JT I dont see a point anyways because Hedmen would be great but it makes more sence to keep the 7th a draft Cowen (could be just as good) and keep our assests and prospects.
May 12th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
And GOD GUYS, STOP SAYING TRADE KUBINA TO TEAMS WHO HAVE NO MONEY….there is no chance in hell Tampa take Kublina back at 5 mil. They have a “self imposed cap” by the owners at about 45 mil. Thats why its so important to get rid of money to keep Vinny. I would guess Malone, Prospal and another contract could be moving out this summer to keep him. Obviously Lawton is going to somewhat play hardball here, and not just roll over and die. Imagine how bad to the fans and everyone in Tampa Bay it would look if Burke was aloud to just walk in, and basically knock Lawtons school books on the floor, wedgie him, and shuv him in a locker while walking away with the 2nd overall pick, leaving him whateven Burke feels is “worth giving up”….a deal will probably get done but it will take time
May 12th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
Dude, if Tampa was holding the 1st Spot, then Burke MAY BE MORE CONVINCED to include Schenn in the deal. Then we know for sure, we’ll get Tavares. But yo man, i really think NYI will take Tavares. But in any case, drafting in the 2nd spot, we can draft Duchene whom everybody thought was more dimensional than Tavares.
May 12th, 2009 at 3:20 pm
@ Jordan. You are exactly right. Tampa cannot come out of the draft a mugging victim. From a PR perspective, Tampa has to look like they are playing hard ball, but behind closed doors things may be different. I have faith in BB, but at the end of the day its a “dog-eat-dog” world.
May 12th, 2009 at 3:27 pm
Isn’t Schenn already greater than the 2nd overall pick???
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He’s already proved he can play at the NHL level and is poised to be top 2 defender who opponents fear. I’d say he can be even better than Stevens. Players yet to be drafted might become busts, Luke has already proven otherwise for the most part
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So 2nd overall for Schenn straight up, then draft Duchane/Tavares
May 12th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
@JMAC
“He didnt want to leave the team, he though they could have made the playoffs…which they almost did.”
lol wut? The Leafs were nowhere close to making the playoffs.
“I highly doubt he forced the others not the waive, and why should they, they all took less money, witht he exception of McCabe to play in Toronto in exchange for the right not to be traded unless they wanted to”
They all went to dinner the night before the deadline and it was decided there that none of them would waive. Also, neither McCabe, Kubina or Tucker took paycuts to play in Toronto, they somehow got more then they should have as well as movement clauses.
May 12th, 2009 at 4:41 pm
I admired Sundin’s play for 13 years with the Leafs and I believe that aside from the Gilmour trade this was Fletcher’s best trade ever. He gave up diminishing assets for an asset that would lead the Leafs for 13 yrs. I am sure Fletcher did not expect that longevity. I did not see the same Mats Sundin with Vancouver there was something missing in his level of play. He still looks strong but he didn’t look like his heart was in it. $5 million for for 41 games and 9 goals does not make sense in the modern cap era. Hopefully Mats will retire and make the announcement soon so we can all have a peaceful summer discussing the potential of Tavares or Hedman in a Leaf uniform.
May 12th, 2009 at 4:42 pm
I would sign Mats if he lets us trade him at the deadline. Right the wrong.
May 12th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
So Kaberle at about $4.25 million is alot better for Tampa Bay than Kubina at $5 million?
May 12th, 2009 at 7:02 pm
Trade Schenn straight up for the #2 pick and keep our 7th would be a good deal for the Leafs.I am sure BB would consider that . We could take Hedman or Duchane +Cowan that would be amazing for the future….come on BB lets get it done….
May 12th, 2009 at 8:05 pm
They want a puck moving defence, Kubina is no one but Kaberle is one of the best
May 12th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Odd Man Rush, horrible deal, and yet again another step sideways. Defense wins championships, not draft picks that haven’t even played yet. Why the hell are all the Leaf fans having such an orgasm over guys that haven’t even played in the NHL yet? No I don’t want to trade Schenn, Tlusty, Kulemin or Grabovsky for any draft picks, thats just dumb, and BB is not going to do that.
As for Sundin, he can rot in hell for all I care, brings zero to the table and is a horrible step backwards into the abyss once again for way to much money.
May 12th, 2009 at 9:15 pm
I would trade Schenn for Hedman anytime i think Hedman will be a better all around defenseman .Schenn as a very poor shot and will never be a 2 way D. Hedman looks like a Pronger type D going to be a force in the NHL…
May 12th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
@ Odd Man Rush
That is an example of giving up on a prospect in mid-development.
You can’t say Schenn won’t have a better shot and be an effective two-way d-man after one pro season. It’s just ignorant.
Let him work on his offensive game over the next 3-4 seasons while continuing to dominate the defensive game. Then we will see how complete of a player he is. It is completely unfair to the kid to suggest otherwise.
May 12th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Hedman could turn out to be a bust, for all anyone knows. Or, he could be an all-star for years. And that’s just it. You can’t know until they play. So why give up a young player, who you know can play in the league, and whose NHL potential you’ve already glimpsed (it’s good) for someone whose NHL potential is completely unknown?
May 13th, 2009 at 9:17 pm
@hockey_guru- i completely agree wtih you. sundin for all his skill and what he gave for charity to the city was missing one key ingredient which you would find in players like clark, gilmour and roberts. he was missing HEART! sundin didnt want to win the cup and nor does he care about winning the cup. he plays his ass off for his home country but nowhere to be seen on the ice for the leafs when they need him most. then suddenly, there he is taking a selfish penalty. then cursing the referee for calling it. then remarkably, he disappears again. he has had people to play with. the really good players can escalate their game regardless and make other players around him even better. sundin never did this. he is selfish. period! dont blame it on the media, the fans, the front office. this is a selfish human being who deserves to be told about it. i am also very sure he had everything to do with those guys not waiving their ntc at the deadline. he was supposed to be their leader. they were following his lead.
as for coming back. that would be a farce. it would be totally against what the leafs truly need. trust in the young guys. move forward. never backwards. it makes more sense to bring wendel clark back for leadership than to bring in sundin to teach the young guys how to float, take selfish penaltys and otherwise be invisible. his best days are behind him. let him ride into the sunset and everyone will remember the earlier days when he actually could still play.
dont get me wrong. i did like sundin but honestly he wasnt playing hockey in the NHL to win the cup. he was playing for the money. nothing else to gain. he wanted his summer off. he was getting married. better to stay where he was and keep things the way he wanted them to be. i respected his skill and him as a person until he did this. that was disappionting. he can blame whomever he wants but ultimately it was mats that said he didnt want to win the cup unless he started with the team in september. he doesnt believe in rent-a-players. then he said he didnt agree to be traded because he believed they could win the cup. then he joined vancouver over halfway through the season. ridiculous.
May 13th, 2009 at 9:20 pm
*sorry i meant he didnt want to be traded because he believed they could make the playoffs.
May 15th, 2009 at 1:31 pm
The Sundin era is over, gone move on for godsakes. While were at it what about bringing back the ghost of Bruce Gamble…puhlease..
May 18th, 2009 at 4:51 am
Sundin? Who cares? Bye, bye liar!