Pronger Traded? Draft Dealing Commences
According to Andy Strickland the first draft-related move of this (almost) off-season has transpired. Chris Pronger has been traded to the Los Angeles Kings for “a package including Jack Johnson and the 5th overall pick.” Note that this is an unconfirmed rumor. However, in the past Strickland has been very reliable.
*EDIT*: Strickland has revised his stance slightly. New blog link is up.
If true, what significance does this hold? Well it may indicate the end of one of Brian Burke’s potential trading partners in the top 5. Los Angeles has been mentioned in many circles as one of the teams that would consider moving their pick for the right piece. To say they have an abundance of young talent would be an understatement. Most hockey minds agree that Kings management wants to show some tangible progress to their fanbase and begin winning (finally!). Apparently, they feel they can do so by adding Chris Pronger. While the addition of an all-star defenseman like Pronger makes any team instantly better, he is undoubtedly in the downswing of his career. Because of this, Dean Lombardi will regret this decision in a matter of a few years, when Jack Johnson is a stud and that fifth overall is hitting his stride in the NHL. Yet we do have to keep in mind that all reports pointed to Jack Johnson not staying in the Los Angeles organization much longer and this may have been the best trade he could orchestrate.
If this report does turn out to be accurate (and we still do not know all the details), the inevitable question arises: what does Brian Burke do now?
Cheers,
Nikhil
June 15th, 2009 at 6:43 am
Lordy Lordy
Fans need to be realistic here.
This is what we know:
Hedman probably now will be #1 pick.
Toronto will NOT trade down.
Burke still covets Duschene.
Not everybody wants a Kubina or Kaberle.
Free agents market stinks this year.
A first round pick may be had, but not this years draft.
The Monster will go to Toronto.
you heard it hear first.
June 15th, 2009 at 7:02 am
If every team drafted like Detroit then you wouldn’t see teams like Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Columbus and LA (just watch) make such significant headway after several years picking in the bottom five. Because every team would be landing elite players in all rounds of the draft…will some times luck out and find an elite player with the 200th pick? Maybe, but at that point it’s a huge gamble.
Face it: The elite players are typically selected in the top 5. That doesn’t mean it is impossible to find elite players down the line but the odds become much worse…and that’s what the draft is all about: odds. Hell, the odds of a player even making it to the NHL get worse and worse as you go down the list.
As for getting swept in the playoffs…so you’re saying you would trade Luke Schenn (your chosen namesake) for four extra games and a player like Karlsson or Colborne? No knock on them as I’m sure they’ll be quite good but I wouldn’t trade Schenn for something like that.
What about all our picks since the lottery draft (which I won’t count because it’s not really fair)…we had a slightly better team back then, good enough to land us the 13th overall pick in back-to-back seasons. Would you prefer Tlusty and a handful more wins or one of E. Johnson, J. Staal, J. Toews, N. Backstrom, Kessel…hell, even Brassard, Okposo and Mueller. Just ten fewer points and we could have had Mueller.
In 2007 we traded our pick but it likely would have been Eller or Shattenkirk…would you prefer them or P. Kane, van Riemsdyk, Turris, Hickey, Alzner, Gagne, Voracek, etc. Just about ten or 11 fewer points and we could have had Logan Couture (and anyone who watches 67s games will tell you he’s a future NHL for sure).
As for your first comment, Schenn, I would love to see the Leafs make the playoffs…but I want them to be able to compete in the playoffs. I would rather finish low for one or two more years and add some elite talent and then actually be able to do more than just get swept in the first round than get stuck in the perpetuating cycle of being just good enough to compete for a spot but do no damage and then not get good enough prospects via poor draft positioning so you don’t improve enough to be able to make that push.
June 15th, 2009 at 7:05 am
@Burn: Ask danny. He seems to think that we don’t need high picks and can just rely on our ability to find decent but not great picks in the later rounds.
I’m just trying to understand why people can’t comprehend this very basic fact: TYPICALLY the best players are found at the high end of the draft. What’s so difficult about that?
June 15th, 2009 at 7:32 am
@schenn
Ya I totally agree, After 2 top 5 picks thats enough losing for me. I want them to make the playoffs next year. I think we all agree that they will not be in the bottom 5 next year ecause with better goaltending they would have been almost in the playoffs this year, and the team is only going to get better. From 10-20 pick there is going to be a lot of talent, and yes I would trade that in a second to actually CHEER for them to win this year
June 15th, 2009 at 7:36 am
Good Arguement Leafer_84, but you’re forgetting that once you make the playoffs that anything can happen.
Do you think Pittsburgh would rather have the Stanley Cup or John Tavares?? I’m pretty sure every team in the NHL would switch places with Pittsburgh right now!!
Do you think Tampa Bay is happier than Detroit because last season they got Steven Stamkos, while the Red Wings won the Cup?
I can go on and on, would Anaheim rather have Patrick Kane than their 2007 Stanley Cup?
To make it a bit tougher, would Ottawa rather have Kane than their run to the Cup final?
Would Carolina trade their 2006 Cup for Erik Johnson or Edmonton their glourious run to the Game 7 for the “chance” to draft first overall??
June 15th, 2009 at 8:09 am
@ Leafer_84, good point. But it seems silly to compare a 6th rounder with a top 10 choice. If you want to make your point, you should be pointing out mid/late 1st rounders VS top choices.
Also, the notion of not picking top 5 and still getting a good/great player, IMO, is more about good scouting and player development than anything. There are always players that are above average drafted throughout the 1st round, and quite often into the second round. I don’t think that top 5 is the only way to go. If you have a young team that grows and matures and learns how to compete and is in the hunt for the playoffs, and then makes the playoffs and continues to make steps within the playoffs year after year then those young players will be getting better and more experienced That’s a good thing in my books. Couple that with mid-late firsts where you are able to find guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, Richards, Green, Kesler, Parise that will make you even better. In the other situation, the young guys on the roster aren’t progressing well, hence the high end pick. Now you are just adding a top end talent to a team that isn’t progressing, or at least is progressing very slowly.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:10 am
Actually, statistically, it’s not true that “anything can happen” once you make the playoffs as I’m pretty sure no team seeded lower than 4th in their conference has ever won the Cup (it’s in a copy of The Hockey News I have laying around, I can dig it up for you if you want the numbers). Which proves that you need an elite team going into the playoffs to do some damage, not just squeak in. True, the Oilers came as close as you could possibly imagine and they were the 8th seed (well, tied for 7th and lost the tie-breaker) but they were definitely the exception as opposed to the rule (much like expecting a good pick in the 200th overall range).
Of course those teams are happier with their cups but what you’re ignoring is that those teams were already elite going into the playoffs. There is a huge difference between the Cup winning Penguins, Cup winning Lightning, Cup winning Red Wings, Cup winning Ducks and Cup winning Hurricanes and the bottom-dwelling Toronto Maple Leafs.
One major difference being the following: Penguins finished 4th in their conference, Detroit first in the league, Ducks finished 2nd in their conference and Hurricanes finished 2nd in their conference (just a point behind the Sens). I can keep going if you like but you’ll notice a pattern: To win the Cup you have to be one of the best teams in the regular season. How do you be one of the best teams in the regular season? By being a consistent threat every night. How do you be a consistent threat every night? By having elite players that can contribute on a nightly basis. Do the Leafs have elite players that can contribute on a nightly basis? No.
So the bottom line is that I will gladly suffer through another season or two of losses if it means we add elite talent that will help us to become a consistent threat every night. Once we have that elite talent I’ll be as “rah-rah make the playoffs” as anyone, but at this point I realize this team is not a threat for the Cup. If we’re not in competition for the Cup we have to make ourselves a team that can compete for it…and as history has shown the best way to do that is by drafting elite talent, which is typically (note I’m not saying exclusively) found among the higher picks in the draft.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:15 am
@Burn: I agree with everything you said and I’ve never said that it’s impossible to find elite talent after the top five only that TYPICALLY (a word I use a lot in regards to the draft) the best talent is found at the top.
As for a young team competing for the playoffs: That’s exactly what I want. If we have a team carried into playoff contention by Schenn, Bozak, Hanson, Grabs, Tlusty, etc. I’ll be happy as hell. I want a young team to compete hard and preferably succeed and bring us into the playoffs, I personally just don’t think we’re there quite yet.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:16 am
Oh, big side note: If you go to the Canadiens webpage right now you can sign up to get tickets to the draft. I know nobody wants to go there but if you want tickets to the draft you have no choice…apparently it’s first come, first served and it went live about 15 mins ago so there should still be lots of tickets!
June 15th, 2009 at 8:26 am
@ Leafer_84 I agree. I’d much rather miss the playoffs and get at least a top 5 pick, as opposed to the 13th or something. But I think that the development of the young team around Grabs, Kulimen, Tlusty, Bozak, Hanson, Mitchell, Stalberg, Schenn, Stralman and Gustavsson(hopefully) trying to, and maybe, making the playoffs would be of great benefit. Some people seem to forget about the development of the guys on the team in favor of a top pick. There are pros and cons to each.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:38 am
To frank Spanky
the most realistic blog i have seen on this site. Keep telling it like it is and wake up some these people.
June 15th, 2009 at 10:38 am
@robert boucher
so you want to trade
so you think edmonton would take kaberle pogge and a second round pick
for there first there second and penner… you must think the oilers management is on glue first off they have souray Vladmir V gilbert and grebs and they have some young dmen there.. so i doubt they want kaberle… they would want pogge when they could probably get roy or hackett and there first overall pick will most likely be a dmen like ellis… that trade will never go down… then your saying you want brian burke to sniff some glue and trade kubina (best dmen on the team) grabs (probably our best young talent offencively) and a second round pick for a guy who hasnt played a game in the nhl.. i know he might be good down the road but thats way to much to give up for a draft pick…
June 15th, 2009 at 10:52 am
I also think the trade for pronger to the la kings is a good one for the kings jack johnston is a cry baby he didnt want to play in carolina now he is doing the same in la and the 5th overall probably schenn…no big deal.. when pronger could help those young dmen so much and the kings dont really need another young forward when they got kopitar frolov brown simmonds purrcell… pronger could get them to the playoffs which needs to happen for la it has been along time… maybe anaheim will have to throw in a conditional pick for 2010 like if la gets in the playoffs or if pronger resigns they dont have to give up the pick
June 15th, 2009 at 10:57 am
Josh G
You got it….why in the world would EDM want another Dman….they are already rumoured to be trying to my Souray becuase they are stocked on the backend.
I think that Kabs or Kubs are headed to boarderline teams like CBJ or STL, maybe ATL.
June 15th, 2009 at 11:20 am
I personally think Kubina will be delt to SJ to replace Blake who I think is either retiring or moving on to another team
June 15th, 2009 at 11:29 am
@ Jmac
I think kaberle may be gone but not grabs especially for the 4th overall pick, if its for JT yes probably i see that because hes a lock to be a 40 goal man in this league but kane or schenn they will have to play a few years to see what they will actually become… and kubina i think burke will make a deal if its worth it he wont make it just to get rid of him… possibly at the trade deadline when he knows if we are out of the playoff race which most likely will happen unless we sign some big time free agents… ya i can see kaberle going to stl because they need a qb on the pp unless one of there young guys step up and they have alot of prospects and they also owe us a favor for giving up steen and carlo for stempy haha
June 15th, 2009 at 12:03 pm
The problem with not trading Kaberle and Kubina now is that there no trade kicks in again after July 1 and they can refuse a trade at the deadline.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
I am not a proponet for trading Kubina…I actually think that he should be waering the “C” He is one of the only vets that puts forth an effort day in and day out….he hates to lose and that is a trait these young guys need to learn early…
I hope BB trades Kabs long before Kubina
June 15th, 2009 at 12:06 pm
RJ – I believe the no-trade kicks in on August 15 – but whatever, agree with your point! They need to be traded – now!
June 15th, 2009 at 12:12 pm
like i said i dont think kubina will be traded unless its a big deal i believe theres a better chance he is resigned because wilson likes him… and kaberle will probably be gone if the right deal is out there
June 15th, 2009 at 12:39 pm
any news on GUSTAVASON or how ever you spell it ?
whats the latest on his situation ?
June 15th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Not dealing Kubina is exactly the managment problems we have had before. It will just prolong this rebuild even longer. It is a MUST to trade him. I like him, I like his play, I wouldnt doubt he wuld be their captain, but the plain matter of fact is, he has to go. YOU have to treat this as if it were the trade deadline 2010 because his NTC kicks in for the whole year, and if we keep him hes not going to wave it (he didnt this year and wont next year), so we will get squat. Seems a whole lot like Tucker, Kaberle and Sundin. I say you ask him to sign an extension at about 4 mil a year for 2 years, and if hee takes it then you know he wants to play here and is dedicated, and I would like to see him here. If not then he has to be traded
June 15th, 2009 at 12:40 pm
I think Kubina is likely to stay because his trade value isn’t as high as the value to the team. He is a bit overpaid, but he puts out a solid effort and has managed to stay mostly healthy over the last 2 seasons. If we make the playoffs it could be valuable too, because he is one of the few cup winners on our team.
That being said I do believe one of Kaberle/Kubina will be and should be traded. I would opt for trading Kabs over Kubina because Kaberle’s value is much higher in comparison to Kubina, but the difference is less in overall quality of the players.
June 15th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
@Jordan
I think it’s a stretch to say it’s a MUST to trade Pavel. You make a good point about his NTC and you’re absolutely correct that he likely won’t waive it. I think that alone shows dedication to this squad, and your extension signing proposal would be redundant. You must remember that the Muskoka Five fiasco involved that group of team “leaders” more or less truly believing their team had a chance (as delusional as it may have been). Whereas last year, at about the same time Kaberle was dancing around the idea that he would be open to a trade, Kubina was once again insistent that he wanted to stay and help this team. Everyone and their grandmother knew at that point that the Leafs were in full-rebuilding mode. Kubina made it clear he wanted to stick around and was completely on board. I think that in and of itself already shows the dedication you were getting at Jordan.
June 15th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
The only reason kaberle waved his no trade clause before the trade deadline was because he knew in the summer he wouldnt have a say where he could go.. so now he could end up on atl whereas at the dead line he could pick pittsburgh or someone whos a contender so personally kaberle is a B**** because two years ago he wouldnt even think of waving it cuz he wanted to be a leaf.
June 15th, 2009 at 1:08 pm
Thats exactly how I feel. I like him beening here, and he does have a nack for scoring big goals like last year in OT a few times. While some say hes overpaid, thats BS. He has the “Jason Blake syndrom” where once he signed the contract fans deem him as “overpaid” no matter how he plays. But if you compare his stats like I did last month on here, he puts up identical numbers to what J-Bo does, and everyone wants to pay him 7+ mil.
Hes a great value to us for sure, but only if he resigns IMO
June 15th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
The evidence of the most recent trade deadline last year shows that a fundamental shift has occurred in the thinking of GMs acrossed the league. The high draft positions are gold and relinquishing them will come at a very high price. Consequently, I don’t expect Burke to make much headway. Outside of Kaberle and his great contract, the Leafs do not any other top tier talent (ie. Lecavalier, Heatley, Pronger), to barter.
In the post JFJ era, most agree the rebuilding job will take both time and luck. The moves Burke has made since his hiring in January give most of us hope. (ie. Focusing on arabsccountability and discarding the entitlement mentality, U.S. college free agent signings, hiring quality support staff – Allaire). However, if Burke is able to add another 1st round pick in the 10 – 20 range without surrendering #7, and can come out of the draft with two quality prospects, then job accomplished this year. Anything more, (ie. moving up, addition of premium prospect via trade) will need to be assessed against what is surrendered and what comes back.
The other 29 NHL teams know the Leafs are in a talent weak position (except for cash), but Burke has shown a good level of restraint so far (ie. Moore/Grabs contract demands, honouring no trade clause terms), and looks to have a firm vision going forward. I’m hoping for some nice surprises around draft day, but remain realistic.
I would be very pleased if If Burke can sign Gustavsson, draft Cowen or Paarjarvi-Svensson at #7, get Kassian or Ashton with an additional pick via trade, and come out of the 2nd round with a goalie (Roy, Hackett or Pasquale), and Taylor Doherty or Ethan Werek.
June 15th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
@frank spanky
“Burke still covets Duchene.”
do WE know this or do YOU just hope that this is the case?
.
@jq
i’ve been saying for awhile that the leafs should pursue doherty and werek in the 2nd round. saw them play live a couple times this year while at school in kingston. would love to see it happen theyre both good players and would be great additions to the organization. if we could grab a higher 2nd from somewhere it would be nice to somehow grab both plus a goalie provided werek doesnt go late 1st.
June 15th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
omg r u all retarded
i never said just turning our 7th overall into like #130
what i said to do is if we end up getting like the 5th overall, we trade the 7th overall down from 9-15, and reap in anywhere from 3-5 2nds, and a couple more thirds, then at that place we still have the option of picking great pieces like schroder, ellis, kulikov, kadri, etc………
wow if u dont think thats smart then u equal RETARD
June 15th, 2009 at 10:41 pm
i have a feeling, tlusty bozak and stralhberg are all goin to start with the club
and have a really good season and i can see them growing into huge players with this team
those three with kulemin and grabovski if not traded have potential in a year or two to be two very good scoren lines !
so with our 7th pick i would bee more then happy to pick cowen or kulikov then wed have two good pairings on d with schenn and pick and kubina and white even if we keep kaberle and mvr
this team has solid potential!
soo moviing up is not that big of deal but the reall deall is if we can get this goalie signed it would actually help a lot !
basically all im sayin is Staying put is not a bad idea and if we happen to move up than great if not still great! Burke has doen enough outside the draft to build this team and its look reall good
June 16th, 2009 at 5:11 am
@danny: and what you don’t understand is that nobody is going to give you 3-5 second rounders and some third rounders to move a couple of spots. That’s ridiculous.
June 16th, 2009 at 10:04 am
If I were Brian Burke, this would be my offseason plan.
The Leafs have 8 NHL calibre (Hagman, Blake, Stempniak, Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Kulemin, Mayers and J. Mitchell) under contract along with 1 RFA (Grabovski) that will be re-signed. Looking at that list it is obvious the Leafs need 2 Top Line forwards and a gritty and experienced depth player. However there are some prospects (Tlusty, Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, J. Mitchell, Williams, Deveaux and Stefanonovich) who will be looking to prove they are NHL ready.
Defence appears to be their strong point with 8 Top 6 defenders (Kaberle, Kubina, Schenn, White, Van Ryn, Finger, Stralman and Frogren) under contract. Along with 2 RFA’s (Sifers and Oreskovic) who have NHL experience and will no doubt be resigned.
Goaltending is looking pretty thin with only Toskala being the only NHL ready goalie under contract with Reimer slotted in to back up Pogge (should he be resigned) on the Marlies.
With the $1.733 million added to the payroll, the Leafs have about $43 million dollars committed or next season with an expected Salary Cap of 55 million, leaving them with about $12 milllion available to spend this offseason. The only UFA to re-sign that will affect the Leafs Salary situation is Grabovski, who will likely goto arbitration and be awarded a contract in the range of 2.5 million – leaving Burke less han 10 milllion to play with in Free Agency.
My first move would be to unload one of Kaberle or Kubina in a package to aquire a 1st round pick, where I’d draft the best available player, regardless of position and hope he is ready in a year or two, freeing up atleast $4.25 million, giving me about $14 million to spend. With the 7th overall pick I think I’d take the best avaiable player and hope he is ready for the 2010/2011 season.
My first target would be to sign a top line forward (Hossa, Gaborik, Tanguay, Kovalev, Gionta, Cammalleri or the Sedins at a last resort. I’m thinking the depending on who was signed they could be had for between $4 and $8 million each. I’d be looking at taking Gaborik with a bonus laden contract that would have a base of about 4, with the ability to reach 7 million if all bonus’ are met with Cammalleri being the back-up plan with a 5 million dollar contract.
That would leave me with 7 million to spend at the very least and I’d bring in a Top 6 forward (Sundin, Antropov, Comrie, Cole, Calder or Afinogenov) for about 3 million. My choice would be to bring in Sundin at that reduced rate for a farewell tour and to hand the torch and Captaincy to Schenn starting in 2010/11.
That would leave me needing some experienced grit and a backup goalie. The experienced grit would cost betweeen 1 and 2 million (McGratton, Neil, Bertuzzi, May, Moen, Pahlsson, Peca, Niedermayer, Marchant, Axelsson, Devereaux or even Moore) My first choice would be to get a guy like Neil, who can take care of himself and teammates and still play, however guys like Peca and Moore are invaluable. I think in the end I’d try to get Neil under contract for about between 1.5 and 2 million.
I’d then have about 2 million left in Cap space and I’d throw the Entry Level max at “The Monster” and hope he signs here. Not exactly sure what the max salary is for an entry level contract, but I’m thinking Gustavsson could be had for about a million, leaving me with a million in Cap Space with the following line-up.
Hagman – Stajan – Gaborik
Kulemin – Grabovski – Blake
Ponikarovsky – Sundin – Stempniak
Mayers – Mitchell – Neil
(Tlusty, Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg, etc.)
Kaberle/Kubina – Schenn
White – Van Ryn
Finger – Stralman
(Frogren, Sifers, Oreskovic, etc.
Toskala
Gustavsson
(Pogge, Reimer)
June 16th, 2009 at 11:41 am
@ Schenn
Signing Sundin is a stupid plan.
June 16th, 2009 at 11:55 am
Nope. Schenn has great ideas. Only few things I would change is Stajan out and Tlusty in, and Stempniak out and the best avalible prospect in from either Bozak, Hanson or whoever.
June 16th, 2009 at 2:48 pm
I agree that Schenn is well writen and make more sense than more here, but signing Sudin is not what this team needs nor is it something that they should even entertain.
June 16th, 2009 at 4:16 pm
It may not be the right thing to do, but I’d love to see Sundin retire in the Blue and White.
I had another part of my plan that I sorta left out. It was the tradeable assets and they include:
Forwards: Blake, Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Stempniak and Mayers.
Defense: Kaberle, Kubina, Finger and Van Ryn
Goalies: Toskala (if a goalie like Giguere can be traded for) and Pogge (at the right price)
June 16th, 2009 at 8:34 pm
i think toskala is gone at by deadline if we are far out of the playoff race as it is his last year in his contract and we’ll probably get a 2nd round pick
June 17th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Another reason to sign Sundin would be to help lure The Monster here. It’s too bad Gustavsson is doing his tours of NHL cities now and not after July 1st. If he was doing those tours after that point, Burke could tell Sundin he will set aside a few million for him and that he was going concentrate on finding him a Top Line quality line-mate first.
I read in the Sun today that Forsberg is talking to Jonas on behalf of the Avalannche on how nice of a city Denver is and how great it is to work for Colorado’s organization.
June 17th, 2009 at 3:42 pm
@leafer_84
dude move up 5 spots….
how much did we give up to move up 2 spots
3 picks, now imagine if we trade the #7 to 12 overall, ur saying we wouldnt get like at least 2 seconds, and a couple more 3rds
and dude u said why move down whe it has been agreed upon that the best players are at the top of the draft
how do u know that, there are sooooo many factors that will never be able to be seen by scouts
June 17th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
There is a difference of moving up 2 spots from 7th to 5th and moving up 5 spots from 1th to 7th.
Most years in the draft you get about 4 groups of players in the first round:
Future NHL Superstar
Future NHL Star
Future NHL player
Hopefull NHL Player
Last year it could be argued 1-5 were Future NHL Superstars, while 6-10 or so were just Future NHL stars, so you were moving into a whole new category of player.
This year, it’s much of the same, however the Future Star category might run abi further, so it shouldn’t cost as much to move from Future NHL Star to Future NHL Star as it did to move from Future NHL Star to Future NHL Superstar.
June 18th, 2009 at 1:17 am
k
i like schenn and all but superstar,
lets be honest i dont care how great u are defensively, but Schenn will never be a superstar, is adam foote a superstar
June 18th, 2009 at 7:10 am
He is already as good as Adam Foote and he is only 19 years old.
As he became more comfortable last year, I saw an offensive side of him starting to break through. Sure he isn’t gonna have Dion Phaneuf’s offensive side of 20 goals, but I could definetly see him putting up some decent numbers.
I think you’re forgetting that when he started his NHL career he wans’t even old enough to legally drink a bottle of beer in Canada and still isn’t old enough to purchase a pint in the USA.
Why am I saying that, because Defencemen take the longest to develop, especially defensive defencemen and that is exactly what he is. The way I see it, since he is already a solid defensive defencemen that he has all kinds of time to develop an offensive side before he hits his prime in another 10 years!
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