Pronger Traded? Draft Dealing Commences

by on June 12, 2009 in Uncategorized - 146 Comments

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According to Andy Strickland the first draft-related move of this (almost) off-season has transpired.  Chris Pronger has been traded to the Los Angeles Kings for “a package including Jack Johnson and the 5th overall pick.”  Note that this is an unconfirmed rumor.  However, in the past Strickland has been very reliable.

*EDIT*: Strickland has revised his stance slightly.  New blog link is up.

If true, what significance does this hold?  Well it may indicate the end of one of Brian Burke‘s potential trading partners in the top 5.  Los Angeles has been mentioned in many circles as one of the teams that would consider moving their pick for the right piece.  To say they have an abundance of young talent would be an understatement.  Most hockey minds agree that Kings management wants to show some tangible progress to their fanbase and begin winning (finally!).  Apparently, they feel they can do so by adding Chris Pronger.  While the addition of an all-star defenseman like Pronger makes any team instantly better, he is undoubtedly in the downswing of his career.  Because of this, Dean Lombardi will regret this decision in a matter of a few years, when Jack Johnson is a stud and that fifth overall is hitting his stride in the NHL.  Yet we do have to keep in mind that all reports pointed to Jack Johnson not staying in the Los Angeles organization much longer and this may have been the best trade he could orchestrate.

If this report does turn out to be accurate (and we still do not know all the details), the inevitable question arises: what does Brian Burke do now?

Cheers,

Nikhil

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  • Frank Spanky

    Lordy Lordy

    Fans need to be realistic here.

    This is what we know:

    Hedman probably now will be #1 pick.

    Toronto will NOT trade down.

    Burke still covets Duschene.

    Not everybody wants a Kubina or Kaberle.

    Free agents market stinks this year.

    A first round pick may be had, but not this years draft.

    The Monster will go to Toronto.

    you heard it hear first.

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  • Leafer_84

    If every team drafted like Detroit then you wouldn’t see teams like Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Columbus and LA (just watch) make such significant headway after several years picking in the bottom five. Because every team would be landing elite players in all rounds of the draft…will some times luck out and find an elite player with the 200th pick? Maybe, but at that point it’s a huge gamble.

    Face it: The elite players are typically selected in the top 5. That doesn’t mean it is impossible to find elite players down the line but the odds become much worse…and that’s what the draft is all about: odds. Hell, the odds of a player even making it to the NHL get worse and worse as you go down the list.

    As for getting swept in the playoffs…so you’re saying you would trade Luke Schenn (your chosen namesake) for four extra games and a player like Karlsson or Colborne? No knock on them as I’m sure they’ll be quite good but I wouldn’t trade Schenn for something like that.

    What about all our picks since the lottery draft (which I won’t count because it’s not really fair)…we had a slightly better team back then, good enough to land us the 13th overall pick in back-to-back seasons. Would you prefer Tlusty and a handful more wins or one of E. Johnson, J. Staal, J. Toews, N. Backstrom, Kessel…hell, even Brassard, Okposo and Mueller. Just ten fewer points and we could have had Mueller.

    In 2007 we traded our pick but it likely would have been Eller or Shattenkirk…would you prefer them or P. Kane, van Riemsdyk, Turris, Hickey, Alzner, Gagne, Voracek, etc. Just about ten or 11 fewer points and we could have had Logan Couture (and anyone who watches 67s games will tell you he’s a future NHL for sure).

    As for your first comment, Schenn, I would love to see the Leafs make the playoffs…but I want them to be able to compete in the playoffs. I would rather finish low for one or two more years and add some elite talent and then actually be able to do more than just get swept in the first round than get stuck in the perpetuating cycle of being just good enough to compete for a spot but do no damage and then not get good enough prospects via poor draft positioning so you don’t improve enough to be able to make that push.

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  • Leafer_84

    @Burn: Ask danny. He seems to think that we don’t need high picks and can just rely on our ability to find decent but not great picks in the later rounds.

    I’m just trying to understand why people can’t comprehend this very basic fact: TYPICALLY the best players are found at the high end of the draft. What’s so difficult about that?

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  • Jordan

    @schenn
    Ya I totally agree, After 2 top 5 picks thats enough losing for me. I want them to make the playoffs next year. I think we all agree that they will not be in the bottom 5 next year ecause with better goaltending they would have been almost in the playoffs this year, and the team is only going to get better. From 10-20 pick there is going to be a lot of talent, and yes I would trade that in a second to actually CHEER for them to win this year

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  • http://www.tmlfans.ca Schenn

    Good Arguement Leafer_84, but you’re forgetting that once you make the playoffs that anything can happen.
    Do you think Pittsburgh would rather have the Stanley Cup or John Tavares?? I’m pretty sure every team in the NHL would switch places with Pittsburgh right now!!
    Do you think Tampa Bay is happier than Detroit because last season they got Steven Stamkos, while the Red Wings won the Cup?
    I can go on and on, would Anaheim rather have Patrick Kane than their 2007 Stanley Cup?
    To make it a bit tougher, would Ottawa rather have Kane than their run to the Cup final?
    Would Carolina trade their 2006 Cup for Erik Johnson or Edmonton their glourious run to the Game 7 for the “chance” to draft first overall??

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  • Burn

    @ Leafer_84, good point. But it seems silly to compare a 6th rounder with a top 10 choice. If you want to make your point, you should be pointing out mid/late 1st rounders VS top choices.

    Also, the notion of not picking top 5 and still getting a good/great player, IMO, is more about good scouting and player development than anything. There are always players that are above average drafted throughout the 1st round, and quite often into the second round. I don’t think that top 5 is the only way to go. If you have a young team that grows and matures and learns how to compete and is in the hunt for the playoffs, and then makes the playoffs and continues to make steps within the playoffs year after year then those young players will be getting better and more experienced That’s a good thing in my books. Couple that with mid-late firsts where you are able to find guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Carter, Richards, Green, Kesler, Parise that will make you even better. In the other situation, the young guys on the roster aren’t progressing well, hence the high end pick. Now you are just adding a top end talent to a team that isn’t progressing, or at least is progressing very slowly.

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  • Leafer_84

    Actually, statistically, it’s not true that “anything can happen” once you make the playoffs as I’m pretty sure no team seeded lower than 4th in their conference has ever won the Cup (it’s in a copy of The Hockey News I have laying around, I can dig it up for you if you want the numbers). Which proves that you need an elite team going into the playoffs to do some damage, not just squeak in. True, the Oilers came as close as you could possibly imagine and they were the 8th seed (well, tied for 7th and lost the tie-breaker) but they were definitely the exception as opposed to the rule (much like expecting a good pick in the 200th overall range).

    Of course those teams are happier with their cups but what you’re ignoring is that those teams were already elite going into the playoffs. There is a huge difference between the Cup winning Penguins, Cup winning Lightning, Cup winning Red Wings, Cup winning Ducks and Cup winning Hurricanes and the bottom-dwelling Toronto Maple Leafs.

    One major difference being the following: Penguins finished 4th in their conference, Detroit first in the league, Ducks finished 2nd in their conference and Hurricanes finished 2nd in their conference (just a point behind the Sens). I can keep going if you like but you’ll notice a pattern: To win the Cup you have to be one of the best teams in the regular season. How do you be one of the best teams in the regular season? By being a consistent threat every night. How do you be a consistent threat every night? By having elite players that can contribute on a nightly basis. Do the Leafs have elite players that can contribute on a nightly basis? No.

    So the bottom line is that I will gladly suffer through another season or two of losses if it means we add elite talent that will help us to become a consistent threat every night. Once we have that elite talent I’ll be as “rah-rah make the playoffs” as anyone, but at this point I realize this team is not a threat for the Cup. If we’re not in competition for the Cup we have to make ourselves a team that can compete for it…and as history has shown the best way to do that is by drafting elite talent, which is typically (note I’m not saying exclusively) found among the higher picks in the draft.

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  • Leafer_84

    @Burn: I agree with everything you said and I’ve never said that it’s impossible to find elite talent after the top five only that TYPICALLY (a word I use a lot in regards to the draft) the best talent is found at the top.

    As for a young team competing for the playoffs: That’s exactly what I want. If we have a team carried into playoff contention by Schenn, Bozak, Hanson, Grabs, Tlusty, etc. I’ll be happy as hell. I want a young team to compete hard and preferably succeed and bring us into the playoffs, I personally just don’t think we’re there quite yet.

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  • Leafer_84

    Oh, big side note: If you go to the Canadiens webpage right now you can sign up to get tickets to the draft. I know nobody wants to go there but if you want tickets to the draft you have no choice…apparently it’s first come, first served and it went live about 15 mins ago so there should still be lots of tickets!

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  • Burn

    @ Leafer_84 I agree. I’d much rather miss the playoffs and get at least a top 5 pick, as opposed to the 13th or something. But I think that the development of the young team around Grabs, Kulimen, Tlusty, Bozak, Hanson, Mitchell, Stalberg, Schenn, Stralman and Gustavsson(hopefully) trying to, and maybe, making the playoffs would be of great benefit. Some people seem to forget about the development of the guys on the team in favor of a top pick. There are pros and cons to each.

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  • mlfor life

    To frank Spanky

    the most realistic blog i have seen on this site. Keep telling it like it is and wake up some these people.

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  • Josh G

    @robert boucher
    so you want to trade
    so you think edmonton would take kaberle pogge and a second round pick
    for there first there second and penner… you must think the oilers management is on glue first off they have souray Vladmir V gilbert and grebs and they have some young dmen there.. so i doubt they want kaberle… they would want pogge when they could probably get roy or hackett and there first overall pick will most likely be a dmen like ellis… that trade will never go down… then your saying you want brian burke to sniff some glue and trade kubina (best dmen on the team) grabs (probably our best young talent offencively) and a second round pick for a guy who hasnt played a game in the nhl.. i know he might be good down the road but thats way to much to give up for a draft pick…

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  • Josh G

    I also think the trade for pronger to the la kings is a good one for the kings jack johnston is a cry baby he didnt want to play in carolina now he is doing the same in la and the 5th overall probably schenn…no big deal.. when pronger could help those young dmen so much and the kings dont really need another young forward when they got kopitar frolov brown simmonds purrcell… pronger could get them to the playoffs which needs to happen for la it has been along time… maybe anaheim will have to throw in a conditional pick for 2010 like if la gets in the playoffs or if pronger resigns they dont have to give up the pick

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  • JMAC

    Josh G

    You got it….why in the world would EDM want another Dman….they are already rumoured to be trying to my Souray becuase they are stocked on the backend.

    I think that Kabs or Kubs are headed to boarderline teams like CBJ or STL, maybe ATL.

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  • Jordan

    I personally think Kubina will be delt to SJ to replace Blake who I think is either retiring or moving on to another team

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  • Joshua Gilbert

    @ Jmac
    I think kaberle may be gone but not grabs especially for the 4th overall pick, if its for JT yes probably i see that because hes a lock to be a 40 goal man in this league but kane or schenn they will have to play a few years to see what they will actually become… and kubina i think burke will make a deal if its worth it he wont make it just to get rid of him… possibly at the trade deadline when he knows if we are out of the playoff race which most likely will happen unless we sign some big time free agents… ya i can see kaberle going to stl because they need a qb on the pp unless one of there young guys step up and they have alot of prospects and they also owe us a favor for giving up steen and carlo for stempy haha

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  • RJ

    The problem with not trading Kaberle and Kubina now is that there no trade kicks in again after July 1 and they can refuse a trade at the deadline.

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  • JMAC

    I am not a proponet for trading Kubina…I actually think that he should be waering the “C” He is one of the only vets that puts forth an effort day in and day out….he hates to lose and that is a trait these young guys need to learn early…

    I hope BB trades Kabs long before Kubina

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  • Paynter Graham

    RJ – I believe the no-trade kicks in on August 15 – but whatever, agree with your point! They need to be traded – now!

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  • Joshua Gilbert

    like i said i dont think kubina will be traded unless its a big deal i believe theres a better chance he is resigned because wilson likes him… and kaberle will probably be gone if the right deal is out there

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  • williiiii

    any news on GUSTAVASON or how ever you spell it ?
    whats the latest on his situation ?

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  • Jordan

    Not dealing Kubina is exactly the managment problems we have had before. It will just prolong this rebuild even longer. It is a MUST to trade him. I like him, I like his play, I wouldnt doubt he wuld be their captain, but the plain matter of fact is, he has to go. YOU have to treat this as if it were the trade deadline 2010 because his NTC kicks in for the whole year, and if we keep him hes not going to wave it (he didnt this year and wont next year), so we will get squat. Seems a whole lot like Tucker, Kaberle and Sundin. I say you ask him to sign an extension at about 4 mil a year for 2 years, and if hee takes it then you know he wants to play here and is dedicated, and I would like to see him here. If not then he has to be traded

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  • Trevor

    I think Kubina is likely to stay because his trade value isn’t as high as the value to the team. He is a bit overpaid, but he puts out a solid effort and has managed to stay mostly healthy over the last 2 seasons. If we make the playoffs it could be valuable too, because he is one of the few cup winners on our team.

    That being said I do believe one of Kaberle/Kubina will be and should be traded. I would opt for trading Kabs over Kubina because Kaberle’s value is much higher in comparison to Kubina, but the difference is less in overall quality of the players.

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  • Nikhil Daljeet

    @Jordan

    I think it’s a stretch to say it’s a MUST to trade Pavel. You make a good point about his NTC and you’re absolutely correct that he likely won’t waive it. I think that alone shows dedication to this squad, and your extension signing proposal would be redundant. You must remember that the Muskoka Five fiasco involved that group of team “leaders” more or less truly believing their team had a chance (as delusional as it may have been). Whereas last year, at about the same time Kaberle was dancing around the idea that he would be open to a trade, Kubina was once again insistent that he wanted to stay and help this team. Everyone and their grandmother knew at that point that the Leafs were in full-rebuilding mode. Kubina made it clear he wanted to stick around and was completely on board. I think that in and of itself already shows the dedication you were getting at Jordan.

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  • Joshua Gilbert

    The only reason kaberle waved his no trade clause before the trade deadline was because he knew in the summer he wouldnt have a say where he could go.. so now he could end up on atl whereas at the dead line he could pick pittsburgh or someone whos a contender so personally kaberle is a B**** because two years ago he wouldnt even think of waving it cuz he wanted to be a leaf.

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