Kessel Trade Wrap Up
An interesting question was brought up by Dave Hodge yesterday morning on TSN’s The Reporters amid the Phil Kessel whirlwind that erupted over the weekend: if Peter Chiarelli wasn’t interested in matching an offer sheet at the dollar figure to which Burke eventually signed the 21-year-old, described by Sports Illustrated’s Michael Farber as “a one in 500 chance,” why didn’t Burke submit the offer sheet and pay but a third rounder instead of an additional first round draft selection? Farber seemed convinced not only that Chiarelli wouldn’t match but that Burke’s decision to go the trade route instead of offer sheet avenue was to save face, anticipating the charges of hypocrisy he would encounter linking back to his response to Kevin Lowe’s offer sheet submission for Dustin Penner that ultimately went unmatched while in Anaheim.
We know Farber’s wrong on at least one account here, and that being where Burke’s point of contention was with Lowe’s offer sheet submission, which Burke described at the time and since has reiterated in wake of the Kessel situation as everything to do with a perceived blindsiding by Lowe as opposed to some sort of repugnance against offer sheets themselves. To paraphrase, Burke views offer sheets as a part of the collective bargaining agreement and therefore very much in the arsenal of any general manager, but believes an honour code of sorts exists where the filing GM should give advanced notice to their counterpart of a potential offer sheet coming their way. On his second point, if true it would certainly raise a question or two as to why Burke didn’t opt for the offer sheet route, but after sending out some emails and doing some digging, I’m not sure he’s entirely correct on that point either. Here’s what I gathered in a conversation with a trusted source:
-Burke believed Chiarelli would have matched and Burke was not prepared to “excessively” overpay in terms of dollar or term to assure otherwise due to his own present and future cap restraints. If Chiarelli were to match, he could not trade Kessel for a calendar year under the laws of the CBA, and seemingly a trade was the only way to assure Kessel became a Maple Leaf. There was no way the odds were as slim as Farber states when the return would merely be a first, second and third round pick package in the event of Chiarelli allowing the offer sheet (at $5.2 million) to go unmatched.
-Burke used the offer sheet threat to force Chiarelli to come to the table and talk trade, but the OS route was never preferred.
-That said, Burke would have filed an OS if need be, but while he wasn’t worried about being open to charges of hypocrisy, in his decision to acquire through trade there was consideration for his reputation in future dealings within the league.
-There is the belief among some insiders, however, that Burke backed Chiarelli into a corner and that is being met with varying degrees of condemnation, yet the pick package is substantial to the point where one can’t really argue that Burke got him for nothing as he paid a very healthy price.
-As reported, Chiarelli really wanted Callahan (only $2.3m per for 2 more years) and a prospect like Del Zotto or Grachev plus a pick, but the Rags turned it down. In the last minute, Dubinski was discussed but the Bruins wanted to dump some salary and the Leafs and Rangers were reticent to do that.
***
The Bottom Line on the Kessel Trade
Brian Burke’s considerable accomplishments and strides forward in his tenure to date put him a position where he could finally break the bank on a true goal-scorer to put a much-improved club defensively, from the net out, over the top and into the playoff picture in the short and long term. In the free agent pool, he inked two defensive mainstays in Mike Komisarek and Francois Beauchemin who are at an age where they can be playing out their reasonably affordable contracts throughout their prime years. He won the hotly contested sweepstakes for both Tyler Bozak and Jonas Gustavsson, 23- and 24-years-old respectively, both of whom many would consider easily of first-round-pick value, while also adding some young and serviceable pieces up front and on the back end in the likes of Christian Hanson and Garnet Exelby. Factor in the promise of the likes of Viktor Stalberg, Nazem Kadri, Jesse Blacker, Chris Didomenico, Mikhail Stefanovich and Dale Mitchell, and the Leafs have a long-term nucleus in place, and possess a number of current elite talents, now including Phil Kessel, that will develop and enter their primes simultaneously. It is too premature to say, but I have a feeling Burke may have found a way to make a quick yet proper rebuild more than a mere fantasy in the vein of Peter Chiarelli’s Boston Bruins model and as expanded on brilliantly by Ed Slater in the Maple Leafs Annual.
First-round picks are still first-round picks, and perhaps are as valuable as ever, but Burke’s depth is such that he should conceivably be able to recover a collection of picks if only in quantity, and his creativity is such that he may be able to then convert a few of those into a late first rounder. Even as it stands today, there has to be consideration put into the location of the two first rounders, which will very likely be beyond the top 10 and into the range of hit and [mostly] miss, to put the trade into its proper context. Let’s explore the types of names that have been drafted in the 15-20 range in the entry drafts spanning from 1998-2004:
1998 Draft:
#15 – Mathieu Chouinard
#16 – Eric Chouinard
#17 – Martin Skoula
#18 – Dmitri Kalinin
#19 – Robyn Regehr
#20 – Scott Parker
1999 Draft:
#15 – Scott Kellman
#16 – David Tanabe
#17 – Barret Jackman
#18 – Konstantin Koltsov
#19 – Kirill Safronov
#20 – Barrett Heisten
2000 Draft:
#15 – Artem Kryukov
#16 – Marcel Hossa
#17 – Alexei Mikhnov
#18 – Brooks Orpik
#19 – Krys Kolanos
#20 – Alexander Frolov
2001 Draft:
#15 – Igor Knyazev
#16 – R.J. Umberger
#17 – Carlo Colaiacovo
#18 – Jens Karlsson
#19 – Shaone Morrisonn
#20 – Marcel Goc
2002 Draft:
#15 – Jesse Niinimaki
#16 – Jakub Klepis
#17 – Boyd Gordon
#18 – Denis Grebeshkov
#19 – Jakub Koreis
#20 – Daniel Paille
2003 Draft:
#15 – Robert Nilsson
#16 – Steve Bernier
#17 – Zach Parise
#18 – Eric Fehr
#19 – Ryan Getzlaf
#20 – Brent Burns
2004 Draft:
#15 – Alexander Radulov
#16 – Petteri Nokelainen
#17 – Marek Schwarz
#18 – Kyle Chipchura
#19 – Lauri Korpikoski
#20 – Travis Zajac
Unless we’re talking the 2003 best-draft-of-recent-memory, which is by no means how the next draft is being tabbed, then the odds of drafting with two picks in the #15-20 range a talent that will go onto produce as Kessel did at the age of 21, proportional to the respective position, is highly stacked against your favour. Would you sacrifice two picks in this range, plus a second, to secure yourself a legitimate top 5 player who’s 21-years-old, and knowing your club’s biggest and longest-standing shortcoming is true first line talent?
I think you know where I stand.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:31 am
Kadri is probably going to be sent down to the ohl once pre season is done, he needs some serious bulking up before he can survive in the nhl.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:34 am
With only allowed having 50 contracts on the books think BB was aware that with the all the signings he has, has to be able to sign the pick or face waiving or release players that he drafted or signed
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:40 am
Kadri likely will be sent down but there is still an ongoing audition so lets see. I was just sort of doing a what if…
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 am
@B Leaf its almost as if there is too much talent! I’ve been really impressed with how Kadri and Hagman have linked up. I think one of Stajan or Poni (&Blake) probably don’t have an awful long time left in Toronto. This is how I’d line em up in 2010-11:
Hagman-Kadri-Kessel
Stalberg-Grabovski-Bozak
Tlusty-Wallin-Hanson
Primeau-Mitchell-Orr
Schenn-Beauchemin
Kaberle-Komisarek
Finger-Van Ryn
Obviously I have ommitted the players I would be shipping for picks at trade deadline if the Leafs haven’t got a shot at the playoffs so that would be (Poni, Mayers, Stajan and Blake who I can’t find a long term place for), Kulemin looks to be in the AHL in this lineup which matches his inconsistent play. I also stick with the maligned Wallin, let him settle he could play a valuable Blair Betts style PK speciallist role with the Leafs. Rosehill is a favoured call up as is Nikolai Kulemin depending on what is needed, I also give Tlusty a chance to prove himself on a line with experienced centerman Wallin and Hanson (who I’m not completeley sold on).
I’ve also made a change on my defensive 3rd line. Exelby’s positional play is playing him out of my starting lineup and freed up room for a puck mover in Van Ryn (White is another I jettison).
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:45 am
Lol at this Sundin thread! Personally always have a place for him in the old maple leaf heart of mine, but good riddance.
New Era, Luke Schenn, Kadri, Kessel, Komi, Beauch, Orr, Bozak, Stalberg, Hagman, Grabo, XLB, Mitchell… Hopefully the list will go on! I love our team.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:46 am
And yes Kadri gets sent down this year.. I’m talking long term excited.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:54 am
@RSW
There does seem to be alot of talent. They will need to augment some gorillas into the line up who can keep up. Orr is a good start. I would like to see more of Rosehill, he seems like he can keep up, and apparently he plays smart according to reports.
With the addition of 21 year old Phil Kessel the Leafs have added a player with elite speed and scoring ability. Besides Kessel the Leafs have a very promising youngster in 18 year old Nazem Kadri. 23 year old Tyler Bozak was the prize signing from the college ranks and he hasn’t disappointed at camp. Last year Mikhail Grabovski was added with very limited expectation but he surprised.
These four dynamic players have a lot in common. They are all speedy fantastic skaters that ooze talent. They are all on the underside of average size and weight in the league but not too small. You could even say that all are still unproven at the NHL level. All have played centre through much of their development into NHL players.
Now while there are a lot of similarities there are some differences too.
Phil Kessel: He is the smallest of the group and least physical but possesses the greatest speed and scoring touch. Also Kessel can dangle with the best of them. While not much of a hitter at all, he uses his speed to intercept passes in the neutral zone. He was a plus 23 last year in just 70 games with limited ice time, so good things happen when he hits the ice.
Nazem Kadri: If his showing in camp as an 18 year old is any indication, the sky is the limit as to how good he can be. He has a tremendous will to win and he likes to put his mark on the game. Tremendous hands and playmaking vision to go along with great skating. He is a three zone player. Seems like he is willing to pay a price to make a play and will throw his body around when he is trying to shift momentum.
Tyler Bozak: Perhaps the most unproven of the group and perhaps the most complete player. Bozak also plays in all three zones. His hockey IQ is at an elite level. Leadership skills are also apparent. He can play special teams being able to play point on the PP and to kill penalties.
Mikhail Grabovski: Not big, but he is tough. He is willing to go in to the danger zone shift after shift. Of this group he is perhaps the best fore checker. He is strong on the puck and strong off of it. Although Grabovski is the oldest of this group at 25 he is still improving his game. His play inside his own end was pretty good all year but there was improvement there as the season progressed. Grabovski struggled mightily on faceoffs most of last year but in the last month or more he really held his own in the circle. Grabovski rarely tires on the ice as he is in supreme shape- he even practises at full speed.
Whether it is this year or next it seems certain that these four will play a major role in building a winner in Toronto. These players will need to be complemented with some size and physicality. Young prospects in the organization that could prove to provide the needed ingredient are Victor Stalberg, Robert Slaney, Chris Hanson, Jimmy Hayes, Kenny Ryan, Jamie Devane and Joel Champagne. Of all those prospects a guy like Devane could prove to be a huge factor. If he can play along a couple of the youngsters and hold his own he will provide significant prevention to any who think of taking cheap shots. BB looks pretty sharp for drafting the kid now.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:57 am
This is an offense that could definately suprise this year, besides kessel who even with his injury should hit 25+ goals, we got hagman who could flirt with the 30 goal mark again like he did with dallas, blake who has been steadily improving and should score somewhere from 25-30, poni should hit over 20 again, maybe more. with first line centre duties grabs should improve on his 20 goals from last year, plus throw in guys like bozak and stalberg who can hopefully have productive first seasons. This could be a very exciting team to watch this year, it needs to be october already.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:01 am
Its funny that a year ago we were sitting here saying that the leafs need a long term rebuld because there were no legitimate prospects in the system. And now, 1 calender year later, we have enough prospect depth to trade away 2 1st round picks?
Its a tough pill to swallow, but I would characterize the trade as this,
Kessel is a high-end 1st round pick which negates 1 of the first rounders sent to the bruins. So giving up one 1st rounder, which will hopefully be in the 15-20 range and a 2nd rounder is not that bad at all.
But to say that he can do that because the leafs suddenly have prospect depth seems a little ridiculous. From what I’ve seen only bozak, stalberg are legitimate.
also note, where have kulemin and tlusty been this preseason?
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:29 am
Any word on tonight line up yet?
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:32 am
Have any of you guys read Howard Bergers blog on hockeybuzz saying that the leafs should use Karbs as a center for Kessel. My god, I thought Berger was an idiot but that just takes the cake. I am beginning to understand more and more why guys like Wilson have no time for guys like Berger.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:40 am
GO LEAFS GO!
GO LEAFS GO!
GO LEAFS GO!
..
hey guys i know ive been seen on this site as saying dont worry kovalchuks coming
..
kovalchuk kadri kessel was my line
..
however.. i have a new 1
..
hagman savard kessel
u heard it here 1st
..
GO LEAFS GO..
BE TRUE STAY BLUE
WOOO GO LEAFS
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:51 am
I feel that in oder to recoup the picks lost in the Kessel deal, Burke will do 1 of 3 things:
1. Will deal pending UFAs during the season or at the trade deadline for as high as second-round picks (Burke set the the precendant with the price-point at last season’s trade deadline by getting second rounders for UFAs Antropov and Moore).
2. Will rely on his scouts to comb the college ranks once again this season to see which who is the top of the crop to be signed as a free agent. I think if Burke is able to move out some of the UFA vets, it wil make Toronto an even more attractive opportunity for young college players.
3. July 1st, 2010. Now, we don’t know who exactlty will be available by that time next year. And judging by the contracts signed by the likes of Rick Nash and Luongo, many teams are certainly not going to let players like Kovalchuk go into the off-season un-signed.
But, if Burke’s Leafs finish this season strong and show they are on the verge of being really competitive, it will indeed make it attractive for free agents. But Burke will not sign 33-year old players to 3-4 year contracts. I know he is hoping one or two of the pending 2010 UFAs is still unsigned by July 1st.
As Burke moves out the pending UFAs on the team, he will have more than enough cap space to not only sign an elite UFA, but also take on a big contract for a premium draft pick.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:54 am
Give me 4 2nd rounders next draft and Im happy. Then we draft very young guys who need longer development terms. 4 jesse blackers isnt so shabby given that we already have next years crop of new guys ready to roll. Now we need to get guys ready for entry level stuff in 2011/12
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
@ 2 minutes
Wow, you seriously have the same Sundin views as I do.
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Kadri needs one more year in the O and he needs some muscle. Can you imagine him putting on 20 pounds of muscle- the guy will be a monster.
.
Bozak should be Kessel’s centreman. Grabovski and Kessel wouldn’t be good together. It would be an option to try Stajan if Bozak doesn’t work out.
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I think Stalberg needs a year on the Marlies. He was too fatigued and really faltered after the first game. Bozak and Hanson should make it and I think a line up of Hanson-Bozak-Kessel would be nice. Hanson would provide the size.
.
There’s a reason Schenn is talked about as our next captain. It’s not because he will ever score like a Mike Green, it’s because of his leadership abilities and his heart on sleeve way of playing. Sundin only had the points. That’s it.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:02 am
kinda hate to do this but going back to Sundin as captain….as a kid I my favorite memory was Sittler scoring 10 pts against the B’s. From that era on looking at the greatest leaf captains my picks would look something like:
1.Clark…. two great runs in 92/93 -93/94
2.Sittler…. remember those great series’ against the Islanders and Flyers
3.Gilmour… did it all in 92/93 – 93/94 although Clark was captain of those teams
4.Sundin…..just ask the Ottawa Senators
5.Vaive…..he did score 50
Any of the first three could be #1 but no way Sundin replaces any of them.
cheers
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:28 am
@slats – nice C list….I’m with ya until #5.
I used to sit behind the leaf bench in those lean years- and … how can I put this…Vaive was a bit of an embarrassment. He’d rant and rave on the bench, and you could see the other players just tune him out. It should have been a prognosticator of his troubles as a coach – not a good communicator (which many people confuse with overall whining).
Honestly, Vaive should have been treated as the moody sniper that sits way down there on the end of the bench.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:30 am
I nominate Jordan for Leafs captain. He is always talking, never sleeps and will cuddle naked with any of the Leafs if they need it.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:31 am
Leafs Lineup vs. Pittsburgh
*
Forwards
Stalberg Bozak Hanson
Stempniak Grabovski Kulemin
Tlusty Kadri Wallin
Mayers Primeau Rosehill
*
Defence
Kaberle Komisarek
Beauchemin Schenn
White Gunnarson
*
Goalies
Toskala
MacDonald
*
http://www.640toronto.com/Blogs/EatSleepLeafs/BlogEntry.aspx?BlogEntryID=10051737
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:32 am
If you’ve ever run into Vaive at the ACC, you’d know he was a bit of a prick.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:35 am
If Tlusty doesn’t step-up, especially playing with Kadri, he will be sent down to the Marlies.
Would like to think that Kadri will set him up for a few beauties tonight. If he doesn’t finish, I will feel bad for Kadri that he doesn’t have a finisher on his line. I am sure he would like to have Stalberg on his line
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:36 am
@ Hardcore
I read Howie’s blog and had to laugh at his lack of hockey knowledge.
He has always taken a contrarian stance which is often times a tool used by great journalist as long as they have facts and an eye to the future to legitimate what they write.
Sadly Howie fails in both knowledge and foresight and instead plays Monday morning coach and thinks the obvious and mundane make for good reading.
Now that he can’t spew negatives about the direction the Leafs are headed he has to resort to giving us his ill informed opinions about how to best use your resourses on an NHL team.
Burke and Wilson have to be laughing so hard at him, he has to be the most ignorant, self centred and predictable journalist in all of Canada, and that is saying something when you consider the clowns the Leafs have covering them in both print and visual media.
Scene. a downtown watering hole.
Burke- Hey Ron did you catch Bergers latest blog?
Wilson- Yeah I smell a Pulitzer prize
Burke- a pull the shitter prize more likely.
Wilson- why don’t we just pull his press creds
Buke- if he isn’t there post game how are you gone to get rid of your excess testosterone?
Wilson- good point nothing more satisfying than Howie with umm err ( cough) egg on his face
Burke- keeps the rest of the media happy and smug knowing that Howie is our bitch
Wilson- and what’s with his mom in law and her big house in L.A. infatuation.
Burke- he’s henpecked and insecure ” look at me my mommy has money”
Wilson- Jeez imagine being his wife and him crawling in beside you at night
Burke- She would be outta that bed in a flash
Wilson- maybe i could use that mental image to get Allison to skate faster
Burke- nah he skates at the speed of smell
Wilson- i had him room with Schenn the other night
Burke – nice touch, the Eraser and the Glacier
Wislon- I’l get this round.. so we keep Berger in the press corps?
Burke- yeah you just can’t buy comic relief with headlines like Kaberle at centre and 2 first rounders for Kessel is too much too soon
Wilson- Bergers always had a soft spot for Chiarelli from way back in Ottawa when they thought they were building a dynasty by tanking
Burke- almost poetic , a guy with a soft head, with a soft spot for a soft team
Wilson- so keep Berger, dump Allison?
Burke- tough choice both of them should retire but at least Allison knows it now.
Beers are delivered
Burke & Wilson- Cheers!
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:46 am
That’s a solid lineup
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:47 am
back to the topic at hand…..which is ‘what are we giving up for kessel?’
i think EVERYONE would agree the 2010 first rounder and second rounder were OBVIOUS, and HAD to be part of the deal. so, even if we finish poorly THIS year, Boston would have got THAT pick out of us.
It is the 2nd first rounder that is in question. So, the ONLY way Burke should be judged on this deal is who Boston ends up getting in the 2011 draft then. and by THEN…..i think they’ll get a 15 – 25 pick, cuz we’ll be kicking more ass next year than this year.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:48 am
Yah, Berger really is a moron. I don’t understand why 590 has him around.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:56 am
@kvas and 2mintue- Dont talk shit about Sundin, No true leaf fan would do that!!!
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:08 pm
I’ve said it before,
Stajan will start as Kessel’s centre as he is left handed, responsible defensively, good skater, only 25 years old, over last 3 years with limited talent with him has scored .529 points per game (kessel was .567 points per game). Lets see how Stajan does with a sniper on his wing, bet he gets 65 to 70 points this year (up from his 55 last year).
Grabovski doesn’t distribute the puck as well and Bozak doesn’t have the experience yet and is right handed.
I think Hagman, Stajan and Kessel will be our 1a line and
Poni, Grabo and Kulimen will be our 1b line.
This should allow Grabovski line to shed the top checkers a bit from the other team.
Blake, Bozak/ Wallin, Stempy
Orr, Primeau, Rosehill
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@Bring the Cup Home
excellent point
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:22 pm
Sundin is a wet fart!
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:34 pm
Fair enough…Vaive doesn’t get #5 so I guess that gives it to Ramage……guess I’ll make it a top 4 list.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
@ Richard-Steven Williams
Great post about Mats. You are dead on.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:50 pm
@ LarryP
Hahah…. quite the visual.
@ IBleaf
And why is that? He’s not a Leaf.
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:08 pm
@ IBleaf:
yeah right… any Leafs fan that isn’t blind should see Sundin fucked us hard. He didn’t help the team, he has nothing to do with our team. The return we would of got for Sundin would almost equal what we had to give up for Kessel!
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:01 pm
The way I see this trade it was 2 draft picks for Kessel. Kessel coming in, in my mind cancels out one of those 1st round draft picks. A trade that had to be made and was good for both clubs.
Even if 2 out of 3 of those picks ends up being above average I think we win. This trade speeds up the rebuild and were now ready for a playoff push. We don’t make the deal and it might of been another year or 2 of waiting for playoffs.
I cant wait to see Kessel and Kadri hook up on many goals in the future
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Kessel with two s, not two l.
So kesselitis. But nice name!
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:23 pm
@ 2 minutes
Yup. And had he accepted a trade, he would have been back with the club and would have been a hero. Damn selfish bastard.
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:58 pm
@kesellitis
I thought it was 4 picks as we had to trade 2 picks to Calgary to get our second back. If it is only 2 picks do we get back the first or second? Can you get us back our first for 2010?
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:02 pm
@charlie
Sundin is a carbuncle on the ass of hairy Toronto!
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:41 pm
@ LarryP
Ever think of publishing a book of Sundin names?
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:01 pm
@2minute- Clearly you dont remember what happened…..I was mad at first ,he wouldnt let them trade him because of his no trade clause. But after he explained that he didnt want to leave the team right in the middle of the playoff race and they were only 4pts out.
I understand it would of been good for the team to get that package im not arguing that. What i dont understand is why all of the sudden you guys are bashing Sundin outta nowhere for something that happened years ago. And if Sundin did want to come back for one last year I would love that the all time Leafs points getter coming back to retire in the market hes played almost all of his career in.
Just because you dont like what Sundin did, theres still millions of leaf fans that respect what Sundin has done for leaf fans.
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:17 pm
@ IBleaf
You really think there are millions of Leaf fans?
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He also said he didn’t believe in joining a team midway through and that he wasn’t the type to be a rental. But guess what happens the next season. That’s right….
And please, he knew very well the Leafs playoffs hopes were dashed. I don’t remember, but I don’t believe they were 4 points out.
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:33 pm
As you know, Sundin was a wonderful player for many, many years! No denying! He was my Leaf hero! Our Leaf hero!
However the way he left has left a stale taste in my mouth! A “true” Leaf would have taken one for the team – and moved on to Philly fo a few months – and helped with the rebuild. He didn’t – so while I still admire him as a player – not nearly as much now as a team player.
Bring him back? Did anyone see him play last year? Forget it!
September 22nd, 2009 at 6:35 pm
@Charlie- Yes there are stilll millions of leaf fans that still love Sundin. You only know what the media says same with me. But from what I was told is the Leafs management went about the whole thing the wrong way. Anyways it doesnt really matter if you dont like Sundin its fine, everyones entitled to there own opinion.
The only reason I got angry was more just wondering why we were even talking about Sundin..Its in the past!! Lets not cry over spilt milk and look on the bright side at what we have now.
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:14 pm
I call him names because he was a great player no doubt but somehow never quite played up to his potential. After sucking $70M out of the city he could have said thank you by accepting a trade which would have greatly benefited future Leaf teams but also would have given him a chance to play for a contender in the playoffs. His hunger was for the dollars and only secondarily for the cup. I think of him every time I wipe my ass!
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Distinction: On this team, Sundin was a talented point-getter who saw a lot of playing time.
He was not, however, a star, or a leader.
He never rocked the boat, even when management was stupid and things needed to be said.
He was comfortable and entitled as his 10 bathroom mansion would suggest – along with the rest of the locker-crushing Muskoka 6.
He was almost never the Leafs’ best player in the playoffs. It was usually a goalie, Dougie, Clark, Thomas or some foot soldier. This was never his team.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:33 pm
@ IBleaf
You missed my point. I question there being millions of Leaf fans. Forget Sundin, just millions of Leaf fans.
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@ HHT
Don’t frget McCauley!
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@ LarryP
Ah, another nugget.
December 27th, 2009 at 8:25 pm
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