Leafs/Sabres Preview
The Buffalo Sabres are first in their division with a 7-1-1 record, first in the league with average shots per game (36), and have won every game in which the opposition out-shot them. Ryan Miller also holds the best goals against average (1.60) and save percentage (0.944) in the NHL. The Leafs visit them tonight in an effort to try and ruin many of those stats.
Ron Wilson was interviewed again this morning after the skate in Buffalo. He understands how talented Ryan Miller is, thanks to his knowledge of NHL goaltenders, but also from spending time with him during the Team USA Olympic camp this summer.
“Ryan [Miller] is a great goalie and he’s played very well this year. We have to create traffic and get pucks to the net and we have to really work for every goal we score. We expect him to be one of our goalies [for team USA], if not the starting goalie based on what he’s done in the last couple of years.”
The Leafs have demoted Viktor Stalberg in order to take a closer look at Marlies elitist, Jiri Tlusty. While Ron Wilson isn’t expecting an offensive explosion from the young forward, he does request consistency with his work ethic and imagination with the puck.
“If he can play the way he’s played at the end of last year and the beginning of this year and play that way up here and bring the same confidence up here then there’s no reason to believe he can’t become a full time NHLer,” said Wilson. “It’s not fair to say he’s a goal scorer, meaning he has to score every game, nobody does that in our league. We just want him to get out there and make plays and be creative, and if he does that, he’ll stay.”
Ron Wilson also addressed his recent powerplay improvement, as well as his defense core. He feels the more his current pairings play together, the better the Leafs specialty teams will perform.
“You know, we had one game that’s allowed us to get up there just as you can have a bad game on the penalty kill and drop like a lead balloon. Our powerplay has been pretty consistent, and I’d like to see us getting more chances to use our powerplay. If we can get 5 or 6 a night, that would be good for us,” said Wilson. “[The defense] are moving the puck better, simple and that comes from confidence and getting to know each other. We’ve adjusted the pairings and they’ve settled in a little. We still need to concentrate on making the first pass out of the zone.”
Jonas Gustavsson will be starting tonight, while Vesa Toskala will make his return debut tomorrow night in Montreal. Jiri Tlusty will take Stalberg’s place along the top line.
Ron Wilson also dismissed rumors of Phil Kessel returning tomorrow night, and while many media reports are suggesting his return is still up in the air, Kessel is expected to make his debut on Tuesday night when the Leafs host the Tampa Bay Lightning at the ACC.
“I feel pretty good,” Kessel stated following practice. “But until I get out there and play in a game I have no idea how I’ll be out there. Obviously you don’t want to come back too early and re-injure it. I don’t want to be out another six months so I’m going to take my time and whenever (the team doctors) clear me and say I’m ready to go, I’ll be ready.”
It’s certainly an exciting few games ahead for the Toronto Maple Leafs. Fans are eager to see what the team can make of it.
I will be liveblogging tonight’s game on TheScore.com. If you cannot watch the game, feel free to join me in the liveblog discussion on your mobile application.
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Micheal A. Aldred
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October 31st, 2009 at 11:36 am
The only problem with Kessel is pretty tactless but my Montreal Canadiens fan brother in fucking law says….”Youre best player doesnt have any balls”.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:38 am
@Jordan
Man youre emotional for a Saturday morning.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:43 am
@Peterbeleafs
Kessel is Habs fans most hated player in the world. He made them look sick a few times in the last few years and changed the momentum in both series lol
http://video.google.ca/videosearch?hl=en&source=hp&q=kessel&rlz=1R2GPEA_en-GB&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wv#q=kessel+goal&hl=en&view=2&emb=0
October 31st, 2009 at 11:45 am
oops
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af18s9PPUtE
October 31st, 2009 at 11:46 am
@honesthockey
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So why has Bozak been a minus player in a lesser league? Do you really believe that Stalberg’s sudden halt had nothing to do with the fact that competition level suddenly went on a sharp incline? How about the fact that he was levelled with a concussion-inducing hit in just his 3rd real game?
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Let’s not be so quick to harp on Stajan for five years of inadequate play. He has only been asked to perform in a scoring role for a season and 11 games now. In that span he has a 55 point season behind him, and is currently on pace for a 57 point season. Is it possible that you are just expecting too much from him?
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The reality is that Stajan is not a legitimate top-line center. He is ideally a 2nd or 3rd line scoring opton, depending on the team. On a high-octate team that rolls 3-4 scoring lines, Stajan is a 3rd liner. On a team that boasts two top lines and two checkin lines, Stajan is probably a 2nd liner, as he doesn’t gave the grit and energy of a 3rd liner. How many second liners do you know that put up 55 points, are relatively solid defensively, and make only 1.75 million dollars?
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The point is, even if Stajan isn’t a 1st line center, he is probably the best we have. Grabovski brings less grit than Stajan. We will have to wait another year or two for Burke to sign a Marleau, or Savard, or for Kadri to come up through the ranks to have a legitimate first line center. In the meantime, Bozak isn’t even centering a top-line for the Marlies, with Mike Zigomanis ousting him as the offensive leader. So maybe let’s give Stajan a chance here, and wait for Bozak to grow into himself at the professional level before we officially label him the top-line center of the TML.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:48 am
Thats what I hate. Stajan isnt a bad player, but he is an average player. I for one am sick of settling for “average” players and “average” performances. Throw Bozak in there and see if he can get it done, if not then look elsewhere
October 31st, 2009 at 11:51 am
@honesthockey
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and again, you missed my point. Kessel just needs to worry about making our PP lethal. If he does this, it’s irrelevent who his center is. Let’s just get the whole team playing to get him on the PP with Kaberle and Beauchemin. It has worked for several other teams in the past, most recently, with the Montreal Canadiens, so why not for us now?
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We actually have a great team to do it too. Blake, Mitchell and Grabovski all have extremely high potential to draw a lot of penalties. All three are fast enough to draw hooks and trips, while Blake and Grabovski are small enough to catch high-sticks and make seemingly normal checks look like vicious boarding calls. When they were at their best last year, they were putting people in the box with their speed.
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Kessel can snipe, and control the powerplay. We don’t have a legitimate top line center for him, so let’s try and play as much of the game as possible on the powerplay. THen he can work with Kaberle, and his center becomes an afterthought.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:55 am
HHT: Bor………………..ing.
October 31st, 2009 at 11:57 am
@HHT-on point re Kaberle.
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@neverlosehope-on point re team’s talent level
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@cameron-agree with your point that Kessel will improve the PP but correct me if I’m mistaken but aren’t we currently the #1 PP in the league and our record is 1 and 10? the fact is we are a horrible 5 on 5 team and we cant kill a penalty. as far as Stajan playing with Kessel wow is that ever an embarrassment of riches for the guy. He and Blake singlehandedly ruined Stalberg’s start, he plays with Tlusty and Tlusty does nothing and now the guy may get to play with a sniper when frankly he isnt even in the same stratosphere talent-wise. Bozak is by far the better choice to play with Kessel, he’s the only centreman with the ability to get him the puck in his sweet spots and the only player who is smart enough to play with him. Kessel will get his goals with whomever he plays with but playing with Stajan-what a joke.
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we are 1-10 people. We have played better no doubt. But this is what bad teams do-they find ways to lose. As another poster stated it’s not about wins/losses this year. It’s about getting individual stats up to a point where there is actually a market value for some of these guys. With the format the way it is with a point to an overtime loser it’s very difficult to catch teams ahead of you. over 1/8 of the season is gone already. as long as BB doesnt panic and try to make moves solely to keep the team out of the cellar I’m okay with seeing how he moves out the veterans and starts infusing the youth. it’s all we’ve got at this point.
October 31st, 2009 at 12:04 pm
fuuuuck i got way too drunk last night. My Carey Price costume was a success though haha… I managed to keep my fairy wings on all night!
October 31st, 2009 at 12:08 pm
@TuckerThomas
How do you say that Kaberle is the best puck moving D Man in the league?
Uhhh Jay Boumeester, Nik Lidstrom, Dan Boyle……etc, etc, etc.
Kaberle is top 10 for sure, but the best? no way
Any update as to who is in net tonight?
October 31st, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@Jordan: “average” players, sure, but there’s still alot of underachieving going on: Blake’s better than this, same with Grabs, and I’d put Poni in there as well.
The effort is incredible though: I haven’t seen the blue and white play with this kind of jump/energy in years. What worries me is an obvious lack of chemistry within our forward group. There was an overwhelming number of errand passes and broken plays in the game; nobody seemed to know where their linemates were — or more importantly — where they were going to be.
Does anyone ever see the Leafs playing soccer in the halls before a game? Joking around, laughing together, like Ovi/Green or Fleury/Talbot does?
October 31st, 2009 at 12:10 pm
Can anyone tell me what/when is the earliest we can re-sign Kabs?? What is the rule on that??
October 31st, 2009 at 12:16 pm
@2mins
I seriously have alot of respect for people like you who go so far out of your way to bash a rival team….well done lol
October 31st, 2009 at 12:17 pm
@yyzdpb
I honestly dont know. I would guess whenever they want, but it might be until they start their last year of the current one. Not too sure though, and would love to know as well
October 31st, 2009 at 12:25 pm
Tough loss last night, I guess its time to realize that even when we out work the other team we don’t have the talent to win.
I was just checking stats on nhl.com and Kabs is tied for first overall points by a defenseman!
October 31st, 2009 at 12:27 pm
This may sound stupid but, maybe the Leafs don’t tie it up last might if Stajan
doesn’t get a penalty.Don’t know what might have happened if it was 6 on 5
instead of 5 on 5.
October 31st, 2009 at 12:40 pm
Ya Kabs is tied with Boyle and Boyle played 2 more games. Kaberle is a beast this year
October 31st, 2009 at 12:55 pm
@Cameron
The number 1 PP in the league is dead last in the standings. Fuc the PP when you can’t score at even strength. Looking oin the bright side is so Canadian though.
October 31st, 2009 at 1:00 pm
@paso
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It’s true, we currently hold the number one powerplay in the league, but that is an inflated stat because of the length of the season and the game in Anaheim. Prior to Anaheim, there was no more confidence in the PP than in the rest of the Leafs game. It wasn’t something to build on until two games ago. So really, we havent seen the fallout of a what a really lethal PP can bring to a team.
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Like I said, it won’t matter if Stajan is Kessel’s center, so long as the team starts buying into the idea of just always moving your feet, always looking to draw calls, always looking to get on the powerplay via hardwork and persistence. I believe Plekanec was Kovalev’s center when Alex single-handedly carried the Habs to best record in the East on the powerplay. Plekanec is inferior to Stajan in my opinion – in almost every way. Let’s just hope that playing with a player like Kessel raises Stajan’s game.
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It’s a joke to just assume that Bozak can come in and assume the number one center duties in Toronto. I don’t understand why we expect this of him. He can’t even be the number one center in the Marlies yet. He isn’t a kid at 23 years old, but he is just growing into the professional game. Not only that, but he’s just getting used to a body that is 30 pounds heavier than last season. There is no need whatsoever to throw him on the top line with Kessel right away. The reality is, we DO NOT HAVE a center for Kessel anywhere. A good coach plays to the team’s strengths, and the strength I see developing is the PP. Lucky for Ron Wilson, we have a team that should be adept at getting on the PP, if they can stop taking calls against themselves.
October 31st, 2009 at 1:02 pm
@honesthockey
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We only became the #1 PP in the last couple games, and since that time, have yet to surrender two points. Since that time, we have 4 of a possible six points. We are only just now finding team identity. Now that things are starting to work, we can finally sit back a little and say, “let’s see what happens”.
October 31st, 2009 at 1:09 pm
@Paso again.
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Also, just wanted to address your comment, which you said came from a previous poster. Individual stats will not directly relate to market value. If you want to get value out of your players, team standings are far more important.
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Look at last year for an example. Antropov was out-performing Jokinen, and on pace for a 30 goal season. He looked like an affordable, and likely resign, but merited only a 2nd round pick and a 4th in the following season (based on achievements). Ponikarovsky ended up with a 61 point season – one of the best ‘bang-for-your-buck’ seasons in the NHL last year. Nashville reportedly offered a 2nd round pick.
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Meanwhile, Ottawa, a team in just as dire straits at the time, was able to get top value for a player who was being vastly out-played by Lee Stempniak. Why? Well because the organization is perceived differently. Previously, Vermette was achieving on a playoff team, and was having what Columbus might have considered, an “off-year”. With the Leafs, managers were looking and saying “well yea, but you’re getting rid of these guys anyways because you can’t even get to the playoffs with them.” Whether they think Antropov is a loser or not is irrelevent, because they are able to use that line of reasoning in the negotations.
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As far as attributing trade value goes, it’s much more important to get the Leafs in position to challenge for a playoff spot, than it is to heighten individual stats. Stajan, Stempniak and Ponikarovsky become much more marketable commodities when the team is 3-5 points out of the playoffs, and playing well.
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Playoff-reality = trade value
October 31st, 2009 at 1:15 pm
How is 1 win in 11 outings escaping you Cameron? You missed the point regarding the PP all together.
October 31st, 2009 at 1:32 pm
no, you missed the point. they didn’t develop that skill until they came out of their slump. saying that the number one powerplay in the league didn’t win their first 8 games doesn’t make any sense, because they didn’t have a lethal PP at that time. how is that escaping you?
October 31st, 2009 at 1:54 pm
Out of their slump? Are you thick? they have 1 win. Jesus. There is nothing expected out of Bozak but him in and Stajan out would have zero I’ll effect on this team. How one win is escaping you is beyond belief.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:20 pm
@cameron-once again bud completely incorrect, but, as usual, well written.
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so based on your argument then kaberle’s stats are completely inflated (thats true as always actually) and Stempniak’s stats are completely inflated (even more correct). Two players whom you constantly bloviate about on this site in regards to their merits as they both racked up a majority of their points in the anaheim game. In addition, their PP percentage is the only decent stat the Leafs have as a team and even by your own admission it really means nothing anyway as it’s “inflated” which points to an even greater deficiency as a team.
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and in typical Cameron fashion:
comparing Antropov and Poni to Jokinen…are u frigging kidding me? there isnt one GM in the league who would put those guys in the same sentence. and btw-where was Jokinen traded from…were they winning?
comparing Stempniak to Vermette? I cant even spend the time arguing that frankly. And btw, how well was Ottawa playing? aren’t they known as chronic underachievers albeit with one great run in the playoffs?
plekanec inferior to Stajan? huh? I can’t believe I actually had to write that.
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As far as Bozak. The guy’s a stud with an NHL game. He’s the reverse of Tlusty. See Alex Tran’s interview with a top level scout recently re: the demotion of Kadri. He argues that a player like Kadri may regress because he needs to play with great players to excel. Ditto for Bozak. In my opinion, like Bobby Ryan, the only reason he is in the minors is due to cap/roster restraints. This guy is rotting in the minors in my opinion. He has NHL hockey sense and an NHL I.Q. Put him with Kessel and he will prove to be exactly that type of player. It’s difficult to understand, but the minors will add little dimension to his game-see Zach Parise-Blake Wheeler.
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Cameron you are one of those guys who can probably name every stat for every player in the game. The problem is frankly you don’t seem to understand the intangible aspects of a particular player’s value realtive to the way they are perceived by anyone outside of Toronto. You invent these mechinations like somehow they are truths but the fact is you have absolutely no idea as to the way value is assessed. The core players on the roster you always reference are known as chronic losers with no intangibles whether they miss the playoffs by a point (btw how’d that do for Antropov’s value-nothing) or whether they sit in the cellar like they do now. You keep trying to “create” value. GMs do not pay for creating value-they pay for value. You can turn your argument around and it works the same way. Tampa wanted a package centered around Luke Schenn in exchange for their 2nd rd pick at the draft. Do you think the fact that Schenn played for a shitty team that missed the playoffs hindered his market value at all? not in any way whatsoever. He has a skillset and a set of intangibles that other GMs covet. None of the players you keep “hyping” have anything close. If you could somehow elevate your analysis to that of your writing abilities you’d have some very effective arguments.
October 31st, 2009 at 2:57 pm
Explain to me why I can’t compare Antropov to Jokinen. Currently Antropov is playing on the first line of his team, while Jokinen has been demoted to the 2nd. Since their respective trades last year, Antropov has 22 points in just 27 games, while Jokinen has 21 points in 30 games. Not to mention, Nik is better on the +/-. So why is it an absurd comparison? Are you going to tell me I don’t understand the intangibles of the game again? Because last time I checked, Antropov is an emotional player who stepped it up in the playoffs, and was the Rangers best player down the stretch. Jokinen disappeared, and has been digressing for some time.
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Fact of the matter is that Phoenix was seen as a team on the up and up. Full of young roster players that carried them to a playoff birth for the first 4 months of the season before hitting a wall – and they did this without Jokinen producing impressive numbers. In hindsight, that trade was actually a poor example as a prime reason for it happening was the relation between Keenan and Jokinen. It was a ‘who-you-know’ scenario, but still, the Coyotes had a lot more going for them for the Leafs, who were percieved as a selling team, with nothing to do but trade away anyone with value. The Yotes, on the other hand, looked to be on the up and up. Their start to this season is the proof.
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Same goes for Vermette/Stempniak and Stajan/Plekanec. Why do you assume that these are absurd comparisons? Vermette has never achieved anything close to what Stempniak has. These are both 40 point guys who once had a 24 and 27 goal season respectively. Last year, Stempniak out-performed him in what was considered to be an awful year for Stempniak. You write off his production in Anaheim, but you also neglect the fact that he wasn’t getting rewarded for a lot of games before that. It all balances out on the score-sheet. You can’t raise up on stat, and lower the other. Stempniak has been good this year.
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As far as value of young players, that’s something entirely different. Perhaps I should have specified when I said that a team’s standing in the league can effect value. No one holds 19 year olds responsible for the futility of a franchise; their value is unhindered by their surroundings. In a sense, you and I are in agreement here, but where you see NHL GMs as cynical morons, I see them as optimistic oppurtunists. Certainly an opposing GM would look at guys like Stempniak and Stajan and wonder if they’ve contributed to the Leafs lack of success, but they are not going to totally write off a player just because of his team.
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Again it comes down to roles. Are Stajan and Stempniak losers? If you ask them to carry an NHL franchise, then yea, sure they are. What if you ask them to contribute in an appropriate role though? Teams looking to fill holes aren’t looking to fill them wih Ovechkin’s. They are looking to see what they can get with 2nd round picks, and project prospects.
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You seem to have this misguided notion that 3 or 4 guys are somehow responsible for years of futility in Toronto. I think everone outside of Toronto is aware that Stempniak and Stajan and Ponikarovsky are not legitimate 1st line players. They know the real problem in Toronto is the lack of star power and blue chip prospects. Guys like this can fill holes at much more afforable prices than more proven stars.
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I might agree with you on Bozak, if not for the fact that he’s been poor defensively too. I could see him excelling with NHL talent, but he needs to at least prove he can be responsible defensively in the AHL before he is just handed a 1st line center job. What other team do you know of that hands a college free agent their number one center job? That’s an absurd responsibility for Tyler Bozak.
October 31st, 2009 at 3:04 pm
@honesthockey
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It may have escaped you, but the Leafs are a much different team now, than they were for the first 7 games of the season. Teams progress as time wears on. It’s a process. As this particular process is moving along, the Leafs are becoming confident in their powerplay. Has it won them any games yet? Well, one of three since this started being a factor. It also kept them in the Dallas game, and accounted for Ian White’s goal last night.
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Forget the 7 losses, the team is 1-0-2 since evolving into the team they are today, and should have won both the games they lost. This is something to build on. Why would you blame current success on previous failures?
October 31st, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Antropov-so good he garnered a low 2nd in trade. so good in the playoffs he wasn’t resigned by the Rangers. last year the rangers were incredibly thin on up front talent-to say that Antropov was their best forward isnt saying much. I like Antropov actually but be realistic re: his value.
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Jokinen-yes starting out slowly this year-struggled in his FIRST playoffs ever as did the entire team. scored 36,38,39 and 34 goals on a horrible team-42 points in 57 games, including 21 goals before he was traded from phx. you can take any small stretch of a players career especially when they are strugling and compare that player to anyone as a form of comparative analysis. it’s a flawed argument that you seem to be fond of frankly. the fact that Antropov is outscoring Jokinen in the last 30 games is interesting but not tangential in the least when you are evaluating the totality of the player. Stempniak scored 27 goals ONCE-next highest totals-14,13,11. Does that mean he is a perennial 25-30 goal scorer? No he is what we see he is. Vermette 24,21,19. Currently playing at a point per game pace. Great two-way player. Stempniak better? not in a million years. plekanec-high of 69 pts-two years of 49,39 respectively. minus player only once in his career on a pathetic Habs team last year. very responsible defensively,great speed. Inferior to Stajan? you may want to rethink that. Not one GM Cameron would make the comparative analysis nor the value assessments that you are making in terms of these players.
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You don’t hand bozak anything. You make him earn it. But you make him earn it at the NHL level. There are several #1 centres who struggle defensively-it’s the most difficult aspect of the pro game to master-play without the puck. that said, he’s got a great hockey sense and I know he will be a great two-way player-he just has those qualities. As far as I am concerned Stajan has earned nothing. He deserves to play with Kessel as much as Bozak does.
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Cameron you dont want to concede this point but you should so we can move on. GMs dont pay dearly to “create” value. Sure, Kenny Holland may think “Geez if I could only pair Poni with Zetterberg he’d score 40 goals”. The problem is he’s not going to pay the price that a 40 Goal scorer would command because he’s taking a flyer on creating that value not actually trading for it. You can invent any scenario you want whereby our roster players would perform better on other teams but GMs wont pay accordingly. Yes Stajan, Stempniak,Poni can all plug holes. The return, however, will be marginal at best. You are also not taking into account that three of the players you tout are on expiring contracts. So you really think a GM is going to give you a solid return for underachievers on expiring contracts? 2nd for Poni maybe, 3rd for Stajan, 3rd for Stempniak. Thats unfortunately reality-we really have very minimal assets.
October 31st, 2009 at 5:36 pm
@Cameron
The defense is playing more capable. I’ll give you that. Up front nothing from game one to game eleven has changed. Plain and simple. We have seen this group for awhile now and while I’m not ready to give up on Grabovski, Stempniak or Kulemin after one year, I am tired of watching Stajan, Blake and Ponikarovsky (although Ponikarovsky on line 3 and I’m all for it.) You will not win with these players and that’s been proven over and over again. Losing in OT isn’t getting you to the promised land. A loss is a loss no matter how you try and sugar coat it.
October 31st, 2009 at 7:01 pm
You’ll find every excuse in the world to throw out Antropov’s recent successes, but throw Jokinen up on a pedestal for no apparent reason. You do remember why Jokinen scored so many goals in Florida right? That division has long been the biggest joke in the entire league. As the opposing teams became more competitive, Jokinen began to disappear. He is a one-dimensional player who is currently being out-performed by Antropov in that one dimension.
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And that was entirely my point regarding Antropov’s value. Even though he has been the better player for some time, Jokinen receives higher accolades because of where he’s been. Jokinen doesn’t have the disadvantage of having every error he’s ever made be the main topic of the media’s conversation. People were ripping Antropov to shreds last year, despite the fact he was out-performing Jokinen. To be valuable in Toronto, you have to be an elite superstar, and even then, there will be question marks (see Mats Sundin). If Stajan is playing for New Jersey right now, than he’s being talked about in the same vein as someone like David Clarkson – a young guy who’s continuing to develop in a positive way. In Toronto though, he’s had some 85 games to prove himself as a top scorer in the league, and now at 25 years old, we know that he is entirely useless, and should be dealt away for a 3rd round pick. Give me a break.
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The delusion here is that every team thinks all Leaf players are useless. These are creations of the media. GMs and scouts are able to identify talent, and separate their biases despite media scrutiny. Just look at all the former Leafs. Tucker and McCabe have taken on leadership roles despite being considered ‘cancerous’ in Toronto. Colaiacovo is considered to be a big piece of the Blues defense moving forward. Kubina is nearly a point per game defensemen in Atlanta, and Antropov has 12 points in 10 games. Last year, people were saying all the same things about Kubna and Antropov as you are about Stajan and Ponikarovsky – “I’m tired of watching Kubina take a stupid penalty!”, “Why won’t Antropov use his size!? He just isn’t a winner!”
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Also, I never said that Detroit or anyone else would pay for Stajan and Ponikarovsky as if they were 40 goal scorers, but mid-late 2nd round picks for all 3 of them is not an unrealistic expectation. To playoff-bound teams, those picks are absolutely expendable. The fact that the contracts are expiring is actually a plus in the current market. No one wants to be committed to something they aren’t happy with (for example, I think Calgary take a redo on that Jokinen trade, and would have rather picked up a 2nd line center in free agency – Olli has no chemistry with Jarome). Picking up an expiring contract allows you to have some freedom moving forward. IF anyone acquires Stajan/Ponikarovsky/Stempniak, they are going to be able to get an extension done. While highly useful players given the right situation, it’s not as though anyone’s going to be throwing 40 million dollar contracts at these guys.
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I think you’re vastly over-rating 2nd round picks and prospects, and that is where we are going off track. If Detroit spends a 2nd round pick on Ponikarovsky, and resigns him to a 4 year, 12 million dollar contract (or less as everyone takes a discount in Detroit), do you think they’ll care about that 2nd round pick? Do you think if they gave up on Johan Ryno to get a sure thing like Poni, that it would cripple their franchise? I understand that everyone wants to get value back whatever they submit in a trade, but for some reason Leaf fans don’t expect any value back for their players. Does no one understand that these mediocre players that no one wants have kept the team competitive even with the absense of any real stars (except maybe Kaberle)? It’s these same players that have infinite praise for guys like Dan Cleary, but really, is he even a fraction as effective without Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Franzen and Filppula subtracting attention from himself? Of course he’s not, but for some reason we expect this from Matt Stajan, and at the same time tell him he’s no good and not a winner. What a load of garbage.
October 31st, 2009 at 8:07 pm
You have no clue. You keep posting what we think yet you have no idea what anyone thinks. Expect Matt Stajan to be anything? I’ve already told you that I don’t in fact I’ve said a million times exactly what I think of Matt Stajan. I’ll do it one more time. He is a second line center on a weak team. It just so happens it’s this week team. To get better he needs to be removed from the lineup. Mediocre players have kept this team competitive? Fuk you are stupid. One win this year. Four years out of the playoffs. How is that competitive?
October 31st, 2009 at 8:30 pm
why do you assume I like Jokinen? I actually do not like Jokinen but know for a fact there isnt one GM, scout ,whoever who believes Antropov is as valuable as Jokinen or any of the other misguided value assessments you made in your previous post(s) that I have already addressed and refuted. to your argument regarding the fact that he played in a weak division and thats why he scored all of those goals… are you serious-that’s a stretch-even for you-what an unbelievably ignorant assertion. And why do you believe I dont like Antropov? Because Jokinen is considered the better player with far superior stats over the course of several years? I like Antropov and believe Burke got hosed on that deal and that he should have garnered a #1 in trade. Great size, great hands, plays on the PP, kills penalties, can play the wing or centre, responsible defensively. Nice 2nd line player for sure.
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hated the Stempniak trade at the time and believed Coli had/has huge upside. I never would have made that trade ever. Believe Steen unfortunately had the burden of expectations cloud peoples’ vision of his value. He has some great assets-speed,smart,gritty, great penalty killer. he just couldnt finish and he wasnt and wont be a top 6. Don’t go trying to apply those assets to Stajan-he aint got em. Fletcher thought he was trading an oft injured Dman who never could make RW into a fan of his play and a 3rd liner for what they were hoping could be a top 6 forward. what a joke.
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Tucker was abysmal last year and they seriously considered buying him out-AGAIN! he’s in a contract year and potted a few goals to start the season, yet you’re ready to tout his great success after 5 games? get real he’s way past his prime and absolutely was a toxic asset in the room.
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Kubina-talk about one-dimensional. he’ll get his points on that squad for sure-see Kaberle. but he never played well enough to earn that $5m per contract with the leafs and getting his contract off the books was integral to the rebuild. That said, had I known that Burke would ride the veterans and suspend the youth movement like he has I believe Kubina would have been a nice asset and the trade makes less and less sense the more I see this veteran laden useless team play. He would have garnered more at the deadline to add defensive depth to a contender-maybe a 2nd and a prospect. That trade is definitely not appearing as shrewd as it originally seemed.
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you are actually contradicting yourself Cameron but I believe it allows us to agree. If you do not value 2nd round picks, and believe that I am overvaluing them and that GMs would be happy to let them go to plug holes, and for that exact reason believe that Stajan, Poni,Stempniak can garner those picks then we’re saying the same thing. None of those guys will command anything of significance via trade.
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as far as the toronto media cry me a frigging river-you can turn that argument around and it goes like this. Players who are marginal at best-see Stajan again-have 20 reporters as BB stated after every game waiting to talk to them. They get quoted, they get press, they get exposure that they would never get anywhere else as usually it’s only the players who actually do special things that anyone in the media want to talk to. Their appearance, and thus indirectly their notoriety is abnormally heightened. In essence, the only reason anybody talks about Matt Stajan anywhere is precisely because he is in Toronto, not despite it. His play doesn’t merit his exposure and face time and therefore one could argue his stock is artificially elevated due to the fact that people keep hearing about him. It cuts both ways.
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lastly, as far as expiring contracts are concerned you are mistaken. If a team can make a trade for a real difference maker they will do it regardless of if that acquired player is on an expiring deal i.e. Hossa because that team believes that Hossa can take them over the top. We do not have one player on our roster, including Kaberle, like that. Thus, if Stajan is acquired to merely plug a hole as you say AND that team isn’t getting him for more reasonably priced contract years they wont give you as much for him. They are acquiring him because they feel they can use his services-but if they will have to pay more for his services in the summer, or worse, risk losing his services as a FA then they wont give you as much up front. If, however, he’s signed for another year at what they believe to be good value, they will be more apt to part with something more significant. That’s why “sign and trade deals” will become more common in the league like they are in basketball. Teams will need to prove to their trading partner that the asset they are acquiring is locked up for an agreeable term. That is why Stajan,Stempniak and Poni are unfortunately not going to get us much due to their play but also their contract situation.
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Thanks for the back and forth Cameron-as always, kudos
November 10th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
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