We’re Back
Our sincerest apologies for complications of the last 24 hours in which we experienced an outage followed by a comments freeze. We should be back to normal now.
It’s unfortunate we couldn’t have suffered through another one together last night. This is the best I can do to sum up what could have been:
November 20th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
@ JK3 – Just trying to add some humor to some pretty rough day’s in Leaf land. I still believe we can pull some thing’s together as a team, maybe a few demotion’s and a waive or two to shake thing’s up, or a small trade to get the ball rolling. Why didn’t Wilson pull Gus when he gave up 3 goals on five shot’s? That’s when I saw the team start to panic, you could see the oh oh Toskala syndrome setting in. This whole mess has snow balled where answer’s are no where to be found.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
Why is it with all the effort that we are not seeing better team defense. I can excuse the apparent lack of skill, but there is no excuse for such a poor defensive showing.
Mental errors?
Poor communication amongst teammates?
Lack of fitness?
Bad luck?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:25 pm
@ Cameron
Agree that the first three can all garner some sort of return (although it seems that Poni will be offered an extension), but Exelby is an 8th rnd pick at best… and would not be surprised if he is not in the NHL next season… I mean a healthy scratch on the worst defensive team in the league and last year a 6-7th D man on (I believe) the 2nd worst defensive team in the league… Not much future there.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
@JK3
Lack of ability
Poor coaching
Poor communication
Lack of confidence
Mental errors
November 20th, 2009 at 11:27 pm
@Tim
Sometimes you have to bite the bullet and allow your goalie to learn from his mistakes and they were still in it, so Wilson probably gave him a chance to win it…although the team pretty much hung him out to dry.
Is it just me or does Gustavsson need some serious work preparing for breakaways and shootouts?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
Poni is a consistent scorer and is usually (miraculously) a + player. Maybe a bit too soft for Burke’s liking. Tough call. Anything less than a second rounder, I think he keeps him @3per/3yrs (someone will give him 3M per year for 3yrs – at least).
November 20th, 2009 at 11:34 pm
@neverlosehope
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there is a difference between out-working your opponent, and out-playing your opponent, and the leafs have done both on a consistent basis. it does matter how they are losing the games, because they’re paly tells us that they can compete with the rest of the league. it’s not as though they are a minor league team, being absolutely destroyed every single night. they are right there. you are right though, leadership is the issue.
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@JK3
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Certainly, it is all of those things in unusual proportions. That said, I think that team defense is part of team spirit, and leadership. sure, it’s partly the system, but the players aren’t playing for each other, i don’t think they all get along that well (Grabovski and Kulemin can’t even speak English, and Poni has to spend half his time translating for them). Kessel and Gustavsson are introverts, and Schenn is playing too poorly to take charge of the room. Kaberle is a nice guy, but not the kind of guy that everyone busts their ass to get back and help.
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Two guys I would push hard for in trades over the next year or two – Joe Pavelski and Brendan Morrow. Pavelski is going to be a top line center in this league, and he works his friggin’ ass off. Luckily for us, he could become a luxury given the play of Marleau possibly meriting a retirement contract, and Setoguchi being Thornton’s right hand man. Likewise, Morrow is a bad ass, and an awesome leader. Luckily for us, his team has done just fine without his offense over the last year, and is full of Left Wingers who have leadership written all over them – Neal, Eriksson, Benn, Ott, etc..
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Komisarek, Beauchemin, Schenn and White will all eventually form a great leadership core on the back-end, it’s just a matter of time…
November 20th, 2009 at 11:35 pm
@ JK3
Gustavsson definitely needs to work on some aspects of his game:
1) rebound control
2) breakaways/shootouts
3) puckhandling
But having said that, he has great potential, if his confidence doesn’t get completely crushed by this year’s debacle in the making. Hopefully he will survive and be better for it, but I am not as confident about that as I was ten days ago. His progress and development is key to any future success this team may hope to have, unless a goalie gem ( à la Anderson), just falls into our lap.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:37 pm
@HHT.. yes I know you are a Burke hater.. that is your opinion..and I know for a fact I will not change that.. all I am saying is that after 1 year.. ops sorry 51 weeks ( thanks Bob) how can we judge his progress.. he has given us the Monster..(too soon to judge but looks good, for a kid) a much better defense.. give it time .. 18 games out of 4 years is too soon to tell..Exelby is gone after this year.. it was a salary dump…and Primeua (sp) 1 year..waiting in the wings is Bozak, Hanson, Stalberg…ect..we have to ice someone while the build is on.. as I said before if you call it a re tool or a re build it makes no difference.. you have to tell the suits something…and hate it as much as you like, the suits pay the bills…myself I would love for the leafs to tell the suit to F@ck &ff but they give the leafs their money…and my honest opinion.. if they told the suits to FO.. the seats would be sold every night.. out of the box office.. why don’t they realize that?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:39 pm
I would love to get Morrow and Neal.
No way in hell we get Morrow. Untouchable as they come.
We don’t have the assets to get Pavelski.
Kaberle for Neal. Not sure Joe goes for that though.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
@Ginoshawa
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Actually, Leafs Nation pays the bills…
November 20th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
@JK3 – Yes he needs tons of work in that area amongst other’s. Is there an answer to the goaltending woes in TO? Gus look’s to have a great future but we can’t hang this guy out to dry or we’ll have another Allan Bester on our hand’s. IMO we need to bring up at least one line to learn the bump’s and curves along the way and keep them here. Bozak, Hanson and Stalberg. It will give them almost a full season of learning at the elite level. The argument of destroying their confidence is bullshit if their used right and not as scapegoats like Schenn is now. If waiving or demoting is the only way to get it done so be it. If Toskala can’t get it together within the next game or two bring up MacDonald, these are the moves I see happening if this team want’s any chance a re-building properly.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:46 pm
@Cameron.. bullshit.. the box seats.. and the corporate sponsors do.. why don’t you have season tickets? leafs have the value they do because of the big business backing.. we make 30 mil more than the NYR? why? because of our gate recites? no because of big business revenue…
November 20th, 2009 at 11:49 pm
hey guys any idea who plays in net tomorrow against the capitals? my idea to spark the offence is to play grabovski with kessel, anyone else think they would be dynamite?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:55 pm
I think we have the assets to get Pavelski. Just pretend to be GM of the Sharks for a second. Marleau is on pace for a 90-100 point season, and is top 5 in the league in scoring. He doesn’t want to leave your city, is the true captain of your team, and is willing to sign a retirment contract, in order to reduce the cap hit (say 9 years, 49 million for a 5.44 cap hit). Then you have Setoguchi – this guy is a 40 goal scorer on Thornton’s wing, and is also Joe’s favorite outlet. You have to think that David Booth’s extension is a good place to look for Setoguchi’s cost. I’m thinking, 4 years, at 4.25 million per. Finally, Evgeni Nabokov gets locked up to a 5 year, 20 million dollar contract with a retirement out as well. Oh, and Rob Blake retires, at last.
So this is your team, with Pavelski still on the resign list:
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L1: Heatley, Thornton, Setoguchi
L2: Marleau, Couture, Clowe
L3: McGinn, Malhotra,
L4: T.Mitchell, Ferriero
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D1: Boyle, Vlasic
D2: Murray, Huskins
D3: Demers
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G: Nabokov, Greiss
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CAP HIT – 52.5 million
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Now they have approximately 4 million dollars to sign 5 players, one of which is still Pavelski (who I believe will get 4 years at 4.5-5 million), and you also have a team with the weakest defensive depth in the league, and a pretty weak 4th line. At this point you have to wonder if they wouldn’t rather try and spread the talent out a little bit, and consider moving Pavelski for a return of cheaper players…
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The Leafs have Kaberle.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
and regards to last nights game, anyone else feel like the refs don’t call goals in toronto’s favour at all? i mean they didn’t even review it last night yet the game against the tampa bay lightning where gustavsson was pushed and the puck went in, it was called a goal automatically. Plus the call against white was attrocious, not even 2 minutes but 4! Heading into the shootout, I had a bad feeling as all the momentum had shifted to the canes.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:04 am
@ Cameron, im pretty sure rob blake still plays for the sharks and i dont think their d is the weakest in the leauge IMO
November 21st, 2009 at 12:05 am
@ Cameron
You may have noticed how many of the coaches, GMs, etc. interviewed lately, keep referring to the parody in the league. That is the reality of this thirty team (watered down) league… the difference between the top and the bottom is not that great… so no surprise they have been in most games… what separates the better teams from the also rans who can compete is the leadership, heart and team chemistry (goaltending can be added here to in some cases).
Let’s look at Toronto (last in the league) and the Stroumphs (currently one point out of the 8th and final playoff spot). On paper I do not see a big difference, maybe a slight edge to the Stroumphs because they have marginally better skill up front and slightly more consistent goaltending which has saved their proverbial bacon so far this year. The Leafs are 0-6 in overtime/shootouts, the Stroumphs 8-0. Is is just luck? No, goaltending, leadership and team chemistry… they are not a good team, but those small but important differences are what separate the top from the marginal playoff teams and the latter from the bottom feeders.
Hard work is admirable… but you have to have the finish, leadership and goaltending to close it out and this team has been lacking in all three… putting the puck in the net and keeping it out is part of playing the game, and the last time I looked, the Leafs were not “outplaying” many teams, unless you believe that shots on goal (many from bad angles and far out) constitute outplaying. And even if you could make an argument for their having more scoring chances than their opponents on most nights, you still have to finish, it’s part of the game.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:13 am
Neal is as untouchable as Morrow IMO.
Grabovski with Kessel? NO
@ Cameron
Just in case you haven’t heard or are still in denial, the cap hit will drop next year, probably about $4-5 million according to most pundits… book it! So SJ in that scenario has nothing left to sign 6 players (23 man roster). In case you are in disbelief, check out the attendance stats in the NHL so far this year, they are down considerably…
November 21st, 2009 at 12:20 am
@neverlosehope
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that is all true, and i would agree with it, but that is precisely why I am saying that several of the scapegoats on our roster retain value around the league. like i’ve been saying for weeks, anyone who is looking at acquiring a center at some point this season, isn’t going to be looking for a center that will come in and become the leader of the group. obviously anyone willing to spend a 2nd on an extra piece already has the leadership of their team in order.
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I’m not saying the team is great, and we just need to add a piece. I’m saying, despite their woes, it is pretty clear that the team has a lot of high level talent, with the potential to thrive in different circumstances. I think Burke will manage to get decent value for most of the expiring contracts. moving forward, we have to consider moving kaberle for a real leadership piece, especially at forward, if we cannot acquire one via free agency.
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that’s where this pavelski notion comes from. it looks more and more, to me, like marleau will get resigned in san jose, and like joe could be the odd man out.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:23 am
@ djstml
At 0-5 this year, how could anyone be confident going into extra time and shootouts?
Remember, this was the second worst team in the league and the second worst offence in the league (missing their top scorer) that we blew a 3-0 lead to. Anyone want to bet on the home side tomorrow?
November 21st, 2009 at 12:26 am
@ Cameron
Know nothing about Pavelski really, but I will take your word on him… sounds like a keeper.
“it is pretty clear that the team has a lot of high level talent” . Are you referring to SJ?
November 21st, 2009 at 12:30 am
@ Cameron
How does Kaberle at $4 mil+ solve SJ’s cap problems? I think Chicago is a better trading partner, but they will probably have many and better options than we can offer. Our best hope is the young guys we have blossom (almost all of them, which is a long shot) and Burke can find some gems in college and European FA market.
There does not seem to be much worthwhile on the NHL FA this offseason regarding what this team needs…
November 21st, 2009 at 12:46 am
@neverlosehope
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First, the cap is only rumored to drop. The escarow payments will rise to their maximum to keep the salary at about the same. The most respected managers in the league (Holland, Lamiorello), are confident that the cap will stay the same, or drop at worst by 2 million. The NHL stands behind this conclusion as well. The attendance in the States is always brutal.
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Secondly, Kaberle is just a starting point. There are several options from there. There could be a three-way, whereby the Leafs trade Kaberle to a team that needs him, and they subsequently send a package to San Jose, and of course, San Jose sends us Pavelski +. For instance, St.Louis has been interested in Kaberle (apparently), and can spare quite a few prospects/picks to land him. I would suggest that Berglund, Steen and a 1st would be available if a top-line player were coming back. There’s also the option of expanding the propsed trade. Something like, Kaberle + Hagman for Pavelski + Clowe + Huskins + 1st in 2011.
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San Jose’s roster then looks like this:
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Heatley / Thornton / Setoguchi
Hagman / Marleau / Couture
McGinn / Malhotra /
T.Mitchell / Ferriero /
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Boyle / Vlasic
Kaberle / Murray
Demers /
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Nabokov / Greiss
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CAP – 54 million
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That gives them a much better defense, and about 2-3 million to flesh out the roster with prospects and free agent acquisitions. Any way you look at it though, it’s pretty clear San Jose is going to have a hard time with the cap. Either they are going to see some reduction in roster quality, or they are going to violate the cap.
November 21st, 2009 at 12:49 am
oh, and Pavelski is a 7th round draft pick, who fought his way into the NHL, climbing over much more highly touted prospects, and managed to secure himself a spot with the club. His work ethic is unbelievable, and he’s proven he can produce with qualty linemates or without. I think he’s a 70 point man, once he fully settles in as an NHL vet. Perfect guy for the team, the more I think about it. He’s never going to be a guy who costs you upper-echelon player kind of money, but he’s always going to give you a winning effort.
November 21st, 2009 at 1:14 am
i think leafs win tmr 5-3 book it!
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November 22nd, 2009 at 10:48 am
@ Cameron
So we’re trading to bring back Steen? Um, ok. Your trades have been declining.
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