What I have learned…..
I have always believed that a persons real intelligence level is a sum of what they allow themselves to learn from others. Book smarts, education, degrees, etc are all an indication of knowledge – but, nothing adds to a persons real world IQ more then lessons learned. Real intelligent people are able to learn by watching and listening to others rather then needing to learn everything themselves – you know, the hard way (sadly, the path I usually end up taking). I am continually striving to get better at learning from others and gather as much IQ as I can from the experiences, observations and hard knocks others are willing to share with me. As this pertains to hockey specifically, I had an opportunity to watch a Leafs game with Gus Katsaros last week and also the opportunity to meet with and speak to Garrett Bauman. Gus and I had some nice seats for the New York Islanders game sitting at the face off circle in the offensive zone where the Leafs tallied some 50 of their 61 total shots. I had meant to do a post game blog at the time, but, life got busy and I guess it is too late for that now. However, that day yielded several interesting hockey learning opportunities for me personally and I decided that these lessons alone would make great blog material.
From Gus Katsaros, I learned that Jason Blake simply cannot be demoted – and he is right. This is not any inside knowledge shared or spilled by Gus, this was simply a very intelligent analysis of the situation and of the reality of cap economics. Bottom line though – and something Gus expressed to me and something Burke said himself shortly there after in the media – a player like Jason Blake who works so hard night in and night out and overcame so much – sending a player like this down would be sending the wrong message to everyone within that organization. The man still has value, and once the cap reality comes more in line with his value, there will be options available to both parties and they can both work on a desirable outcome at that time – and if Jason Blake can ever find his scoring touch again, along with his work ethic, he may be a useful piece moving forward. Gus also provided a glimpse of what scouts look for in certain players and why. I do not always agree with scouts assessments, but I now understand why so many players come out of nowhere and simultaneously why so many players are so accurately scouted. Some very simple fundamentals are used as key indicators to translate into NHL success. Which battles are won and where, which tendencies certain players have for which passes and where, etc. Some very specific criteria – which although sometimes leads to fundamental skill sets being overlooked has proven to be a very effective overall measuring stick to project NHL success.
From Garrett Bauman I learned that it is probably a smart move to alleviate that Campbell contract from Chicago. It would simply be the best way to replace Kaberle long term, garner a return for Kaberle that would include a top6 young forward and a 1st round pick and only marginally increase your cap number. To resign Kaberle is going to cost in the $6M-$6.5M per season range – and even though Campbell is not worth his contract, I would say his real value is closer to that contract then Kaberle would be at $6.5M per season. I must admit, I laughed when Garrett first proposed this, but, I since learned that there is opportunity in someone elses mistake. Much like McCabe and Florida. I also learned, all be it indirectly, that Garrett may finally be coming around on my analysis of Stralman and he probably now feels that Kaberle should have been moved and Stralman kept. However, since this opportunity was indeed missed, I am in complete agreement now that Campbell would probably be a great fit here as long as it means acquiring a top6 forward and a 1st round pick back and moving Kaberles contract out along with another expiring contract out.
Listening to the Bill Watters and Greg Brady show driving down to the game I learned that trading Stralman was not a mistake. Apparently Mr Watters and Mr Brady felt that he is only succeeding because he is receiving ice time and an opportunity – and since he is not the second coming of Lindstrom, we should not be concerned. Though, while listening to Mr Watters analysis of the situation, I quickly began to realize why the Leafs were never able to get over the hump while Mr Watters was part of the management team. The philosophy is completely backwards. Instead of trading the veteran (ie Kaberle) at the right time for the right return and maintaining the youngster with the similar skill sets (ie Stralman) who is younger, who is cheaper and who potentially could be equivalent or better talent wise – and who you hold the contractual hammer on – Instead you give away the youngster and maintain the veteran on the favourable, yet, soon to be expiring contract who now holds the contractual hammer over the organization? I guess it is of no surprise considering Mr Watters was part of the management team when the Leafs put Steve Sullivan on waivers (620 Points in 787 games and a + 96 overall in his career having totalled 60 or more points 6 times since the Leafs placed him on waivers) in order to make room for a veteran. Or the trading of Jason Smith for a bag of pucks (who went on to be the captain of the Oilers for over half a decade and was EXACTLY the type of D the Leafs sorely missed in every single playoff series) because they were too deep on the back end and did not need him. Trading Modin for Cross (Modin went on to be a very reliable and effective scoring winger and won a cup in Tampa) because apparently we needed size on our back end (who would have thought keeping Jason Smith might be the answer) and Modin needed to be replaced with a veteran who could perform in the playoffs. Ironically enough, except for brief stints by an aging Mogilny and Roberts, Modin would have likely been the best winger to suit up alongside Sundin and he ended up proving he was quite a bit more reliable come playoff time then any of the veterans the Leafs acquired in his place. From Mr Watters I learned the the Leafs organization is fundamentally flawed in their thinking and their strategy and that it has been this way for quite awhile. I also learned that seemingly brilliant men can get afflicted with this syndrome and completely forget the notion that winning organizations are built via growing and developing youth (however they are acquired), and trading veterans at key times for key returns – not by trading away your youth for marginal returns because they were never given real opportunities and then overpaying for veterans that others developed and capitalized on.
Lastly, from my brother Phil, who is a lifelong Leaf fan like myself, who I spend considerable time with on the phone, hockey change rooms before and after games and at each others houses chatting about the Leafs and hockey in general. On the night of the game, while waiting to meet up with Gus downtown, I received a phone call from Phil. Similar to myself who has become a Columbus fan this year, Phil has become an Atlanta fan. Now, as frustrated as both of us are with the Leafs, and as much as we tried to claim allegiances to other teams (Columbus in my case, Atlanta in Phil’s case), it has become obvious that we are both full of it, as when push comes to shove, we are still watching the Leafs first, and only watching our “new teams”, when the Leafs are not playing. Having said this, I learned from Phil that Kubina and Antropov are indeed the real deal. When Toronto could not run Kubina out of town fast enough and Phil was insisting he was one of the better Defensemen to play in Toronto in a LONG time, I simply mocked him. So, on the night in question, I learned from Phil that Kubina had 10 points in 20 games and was a + 11 and Antropov has 21 Points in 21 Games and is also a +11. Kubina and Antropov are currently tied for 11th best +/- in the league. Interesting note on Antropov. In Toronto, they needed him to be a big bodied winger that scored, and he delivered that. In Atlanta, they needed him to be a big body up the middle and setup Kovulchuk and be defensively responsible to allow Kovulchuk to play his game – again, he is delivering that. From Phil I learned that the Leafs made a huge mistake letting these players go and that these 2 players could be largely responsible for Atlanta turning their program around this year and making the playoffs for only the 2nd time in their history. The total return for Kubina and Antropov? a 2nd round pick and Exelby.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:31 pm
@M9
Not rebuilding? What would you call it? Waiting for the right time time to spring the trap and crush any one of the remaining 29 teams into submission?
November 27th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
@ Andrew R.
Intelligence and knowledge are two totally different things. Intelligence is something you are born with. Knowledge is what one gains through life. Intelligence will play a factor in what knowledge is gained and to what extent. Some of the stupidest people you will ever meet will posses knowledge of an unbelievable scale about certain things and experiences in which intellect has nothing to do with. Actually a low intellect may contribute to someone needing to gain knowledge about certain people, places or events that anyone with real intellect would not care to learn about. I would use TMZ and Entertainment Tonight as examples of information that would mostly interest people with low levels intelligence who may become quite knowledgeable about whatever crap they happen to be dishing out.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
pazuzu you make it seem like you think the league is like nhl 2010 the video game where you can just trade away everything shitty for something great and have the team you want within a day. I’m sure BB knows we need more skill up front…it will come. You mentioned kovalchuk…hey he’s a free agent this summer, he’s not signed yet and we have 20 mill to play with….heck we can hope and dream.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:35 pm
I’m actually happy with the way the Leafs are playing. It’s frustrating to watch them sometimes but they are a lunchbox kinda team and I like hard working teams. If you don’t like the way the team plays maybe you should switch allegiances.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:44 pm
@Pazuzu
You can’t always win not matter how hard you try. No amount of good management can make it happen, guaranteed. Your just going to have to accept that.
And you want the team blown up you say? This is it! This is last years, and the years team before it BLOWN UP! This is what it looks like and it takes time, nutbar!
November 27th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
Kova wants to win. There is now fuckin way he signs with the Leafs. No way! Unless, of coarse he wants to wait for 3-5 years like he did in ATL. Not gonna happen! He might as well resign with the Thrashers.Right now, WE ARE BOTTOM FEEDERS!!! If I was a pro hockey player ..Skater…, not goalie) and had identical deals with the Leafs and lets say….Dallas…I’d take Dallas in a heartbeat, no pressure. Refine my game and make some coin. If I wanna win the cup? Leafs are way off my radar. Leafs , even with Leaf colored glasses, are a team in real turmoil. Ya can’t see that yer fuckin blind!!
November 27th, 2009 at 6:46 pm
TT, you gotta link for the game tonight?
And thanks for setting the record straight re: IQ and info, I was debating whether to bother saying anything.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:49 pm
alright Pazuzu
i have better idea for you then…get a new team so you dont have to cry any longer
November 27th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
@M9 – if you do not want this place to turn into hockeybuzz, why not stop insulting people and prove you can carry on an intelligent conversation.. agree or disagree, that is part of the fun, and the entire point.. resulting to personal name calling because you disagree only devalues your comments and opinions – and honestly, from my perspective, is a self admission that you are likely wrong…
@shieko – nice comments and thanks for the apology. Its all good, we can certainly disagree on some points, or all points – again, it is part of the fun.. for the record, I like your last post and see a good amount of logic to it..
@big blue – lol – sorry man, the kids will always have less points then the veterans.. this is the nature of things.. by your logic, you should always keep the vets, and never play the rookies because the veterans have better career stats? – well.. yeah, they would always have better stats.. Im sure Stajan has more NHL points then Kadri, so, by this logic, Kadri should get shipped out and not given a real opportunity because Stajan has more points?
@Luke – I will keep talking about Stralman – he is, the perverbial straw that broke the camels back – at least for me .. the Leafs organization has made the same mistake for my entire lifetime.. want to use the names Boyes, Sullivan, Modin, Smith, Coalaicovo, Stralman, etc, etc, etc.. whatever.. its the same old story.. and regardless of how badly you want to mock me for it, I am right – and the proof is in the results…
@leafs_wingp – do you have any proof that all of those gentlemen agree with you? There is more then 1 report that there has been more then just a minor disagreement amongst the Leafs management team about these decisions. So, where and how exactly are you determining that I have one opinion and everyone single person in Leafs management has another opinion?
@Johnfergusonjr – lol – it is obvious that the people commenting really have not watched a lot of Columbus games. Great comments and observations.. Stralman is the real deal, and he is getting a lot better.. they are starting to play him A LOT against the other teams top lines.. he is also becoming their shut down guy late in games when they have a lead.. scary thing is, he is only 23 – which is basically a baby for an NHL D-Man – and this is his first real NHL opportunity (the spot duty and bitch treatment the Leafs gave him dont count as a real opportunity).. the kid has nowhere to go but up. and right now, he is 11th in NHL scoring for D-Men..
November 27th, 2009 at 6:53 pm
@shieko – easy there man.. pazuzu is just a frustrated fan.. can you really blame him? the fact he is hanging on, even when this frustrated, shows his real resolve..
November 27th, 2009 at 6:56 pm
As per trading Kaby…
Keeping him is looking pretty decent so far I think. Wouldn’t the numbers he has been putting up this year improve his value compared to the summer after a poor year? I realize the fact that his contract is one year shorter now.
November 27th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
@TT – are you debating my uses of the words intelligence and knowledge? or simply having a conversation around those words? I am ok with either to be honest.. as for my usage, I think I pretty clear defined how I was using them for the purposes of the blog.. I guess I could probably have worded it differently or used the words differently, but, does that really matter? or did I misread what you meant completely and you were simply expanding on my comments? (which is also fine – a little confusing I guess, but, certainly fine
)
November 27th, 2009 at 6:59 pm
Fuck man, I’m not cryin..(although maybe i should) but c’mon!! This franchise has been spawning replies like this since the Ballard days.No GM of the Leafs has actually tried to “blow it up” since Ballard and we all know Ballard was an EVIL MOTHER FUCKER. We got Kessel, shrewd moves makes this team a contender in the next 3 years. I want this organization(NOT THIS TEAM) to turn the corner and actually BUILD FOR THE FUTURE!! I don’t fuckin care if BOS get Hall or whatever. I just want this organization to recognize the needs they have and address them. That’s all!!
November 27th, 2009 at 7:04 pm
Pazuzu
“Not rebuilding? What would you call it? Waiting for the right time time to spring the trap and crush any one of the remaining 29 teams into submission?”
Don’t you read DGB? We are going to have a 64 win April to clinch the playoffs.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
LOL yeh double up (wish I could double up with thr chickapoos)
November 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
Andrew, I think there is a point to be made about how these players became completely different players once they left the Leafs. I think a lot of this had to do with how we managed our kids but also there is the pressure, the perks and other intangables like style of play and chemistry. Sometimes players simply play better on one team than another.
.
Out of the players you mentioned I was only interested with Brad Boyes and Smith. Sullivan lit it up for a few years but couldn’t hack it in TO, maybe it was a current day managerial issue, I don’t know. Modin was virtually useless as a Leaf, and a dime a dozen player. Coliacavo will likely have a short and fruitless career, as will Steen.
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You also have to realize that teams bleed talent, not just the Leafs, all of them do. It is impossible to retain all contracted talent.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:07 pm
I do think the reason Stalman was moved was his interaction with Wilson. Under Maurice , even with limited icetime he seemed to be improving game by game. Last year with Wilson it looked like he regressed. Since Wilson was not leaving it made sense to move Stalman is my take.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:09 pm
Like I say..RW is a fuckin tool!!
November 27th, 2009 at 7:10 pm
anyone got a link for the game?
November 27th, 2009 at 7:11 pm
Hearsay. Conjecture. I object.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:12 pm
Team USA sure…Team Leafs I dont think so.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:13 pm
Oh, and Wilson has our shitty team outshooting and outplaying all comers, the problems is the competance of the players.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:14 pm
Hey Andrew,
Thanks, I enjoyed your article. Being teachable can be one of the most important qualities a person can have in life and can lead to immeasurable reward.
As per usual I agreed with everything. Clearly the Leafs miss Antropov. Kaberle should have been moved. If there is indeed an opportunity to move Kabs for Campbell, I would do so with something of significant value coming as well. I doubt that you would get a first along with a legit top six. I made some comments earlier this week on the subject and really got the busness because of Campbells contract.
All the best with cheering for CBJ, I too have found it impossible to break loyalty to the Leafs.
What do you think of Gunnarson? It seems that almost everytime he is involved in the play he makes good things happen (not just saying this because of three assists the other night). Personally I doubt that he is going back to the Marlies. With White and Gunnarson the Sundinized Kaberle can fetch us another decent young player. Paso what are your thoughts on Gunnar?
November 27th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I think its too hard to please some fans. Last year EVERYONE wanted Antropov gone for picks at the deadline because it was “thing of the month”. No some people want him back? No way. 4 mil? Not a chance! Antro-sloth and his losing nature can go play somewhere else because it didnt work with him here for 10 years, I doubt it will anytime soon. We got Jesse Blacker for him, whats not to like about that?
November 27th, 2009 at 7:18 pm
@lescott – nice comments. Having said this, I do respectfully disagree.. These players do better once they leave Toronto because they get a legitimate opportunity. An opportunity they never get here. The other thing they get when they leave is patience. They are allowed to play through their mistakes and not benched as soon as a mistake is made. Quinn for example had Sullivan on the 4th line, playing him spot duty and sitting him in the press box a lot. The kid still scored 20, many of the highlight real variety – and his reward, he gets put on waivers.. the very next season, once Chicago claimed him and gave him some ice time was a 64 point output.. perfect 2nd line center candidate – and everyone back then knew it.. the logic of course was he was too small for Burke – ok, that is fine – but, how on earth do you let a guy like this go for nothing is simply beyound me.. Smith was the same deal.. we traded Gilmore for Petes sake to get Sullivan and Smith.. these guys were top prospects in the New Jersey system – and the Leafs just gave them away.. the list goes on and on.. the issue is not Toronto.. that is media generated BS.. these players did not suddenly get better because they left Toronto.. The Leafs organization did not develop these players properly and did not give them the proper opportunities to at least establish real market value.. I am hopeful this will change now.. Burke is obviously doing the same thing with inherited prospects, but, maybe he will do this right (and I think he will), with his own prospects…
November 27th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
@ B Leaf – thanks bud.. Gunnarsson really is impressive.. another JFJ late round gem – pleasant surprise if you ask me.. and I think most would agree..
November 27th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
And another point, the Blue Jackets are my second favourite team I love to watch, and I see alot of their games. Stralman is still a weak and bad defensive defenceman. Im surprised we managed to get a 2nd for him really. He is not different then Kaberle in his own zone, but puts up alot less points, and we still get frustraited with Kabby out there sometimes. If Stralman was still here, I would take Kaberle, White and Gunnersson over him anyways, so where would that leave him?
November 27th, 2009 at 7:20 pm
@Jordan – I was livid when Antropov was moved. $4M for Antropov is a great price.. just my opinion and yes, I am fully aware you disagree… though, he sure would look good playing with Kessel right now..
November 27th, 2009 at 7:21 pm
No, No I don’t think so. I think the problem lies in the systems RW is tryin to establish. Maybe with more talented players it works, but for this team it doesn’t, obviously. Like I say, this team needs to load up the first line, our scoreres, ya know
? Hags-Grabs-Kess? Stajan -blake stempy are energy fore-check guys. Primeau- poni and kulemin checkers that can score. ya all know my feelings on this .If RW was coaching any other team in the league he’d be “this close” to being fired!!!
November 27th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
does anyone else’s Leaf tv feed keep skipping, like the one on television not computer?
November 27th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
@Jordan – are you saying, that based on Stralmans output, a 2nd round pick was good value? are you suggesting that if everyone in the league knew he would perform like this, the best you could get for him was a 2nd round pick? honestly? as for your other comments, I would have traded Kaberle, kept Stralman, White and Gunnarsson. Neither White nor Gunnarsson bring what Stralman does to the table (though as honesthockey pointed out, there is hope for Gunnarsson).. point is, my team would have had room for all 3 – and I assure you, the team would have been better with those 3 playing, Stralman QB’ing your PP and a player like Voracek in your top6 (ie the return for Kaberle) – not too mention the team being younger and cheaper…
November 27th, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Does anyone have a link to tonight’s game??
November 27th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
@Andrew R
To be fair over the long run we dont really know what we lost in Stralman, there are many players around the league that have put together great seasons at some point. Although playing great now we cant assume he will be a consistantly terrific player throughout his career.
I realize not really prudent to the debate as it is may be used for both sides of the argument. Can say the same for Gunnarson and White.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
You’d spend $4 million/yr on Antropov? yikes.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:28 pm
http://atdhe.net/
November 27th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Silverchair freak-RW theme song
November 27th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
Who would choose to follow Greg Millen? Like voluntarily want to hear that mans opinions.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:30 pm
@Edward Flannery
Yea, my feed’s been pretty shit, the audio keeps cutting out and there was a 10 second or so period where there was no visual either.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:32 pm
Holly shit boys i just had an opiphany (sp?)
Anyone remeber that old movie Village of the Damned? The one with Christopher Reeve and Kirstie Alley? Blake looks like the one kid they chose to let live!!! This is where they hid him , out in the open for all to see, where no one would suspect a thing!!! Genius!
November 27th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
@CarltontheBear
K so were all getting this feed, mines doing and did the exact same.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:34 pm
@Edward Flannery
Epiphany lol
November 27th, 2009 at 7:35 pm
Thx lilgrnmen
November 27th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
Gonna be a big win for us tonight boys
November 27th, 2009 at 7:36 pm
WHERE CAN I WATCH THE ON THE NET.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
@ Andrew R.
I don’t know what world IQ is but intelligence itself can’t be added to or expanded upon or even gathered. Thats what happens with knowledge. Intelligence can however be taken away due to injury or sickness to the brain. So I guess I’m questioning your use of those words, respectfully of course while making sure others understand the differences between the two.
November 27th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
http://atdhe.net/10549/watch-toronto-maple-leafs-vs-florida-panthers
November 27th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
Leafs Game here…..
http://www.atdhe.net/10549/watch-toronto-maple-leafs-vs-florida-panthers
November 27th, 2009 at 7:38 pm
millen’s got to be better than the florida feed, good god, it’s gonna be a long night
November 27th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
nice non call to start the game
November 27th, 2009 at 7:39 pm
umm how was that not tripping?