Lineup Notes
Sunday: Stalberg called up, skating on the fourth line today with Primeau and Orr. I’d like to see Stalberg get more of a shot in an offensive role, but it’s tough to argue for a major change coming off a big win.
Rosehill sent down to the Marlies. Couple stupid penalties are catching up to him.
12:55 Monday Update: Andre Deveaux has been called up. No word yet on whether he will play tonight.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:13 pm
honesthockey wrote:
You didn’t see my avatar? You know I’d have to respond to that one!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
@ ingy56:
Hahaha. What was Johnny 40 when he finally got the nod?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
Simply put, Mitchell has got to show he’s capable of more than he’s shown to this point or he’s going to have a hard time finding any future on this team other than as a 4th liner!
February 8th, 2010 at 3:14 pm
It was Steen.
I still believe we could have done better with these guys.
Rask under the right development would have succeeded to be more that the rights to Raycroft which is what we got for him. And we would have avoided the whole Tosk-a-lol era.
Steen would have been worth more than Stempniak.
Coliacovo would have been taught to keep his head up and not get injured ever season.
Tlusty would have become better than a 3rd/4th liner.
Boyes would have been worth more done more than Owen Nolan ever did for us.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:20 pm
Does JSG have a new mask yet? I’m curious what sort of design he’ll go with in blue & white.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:22 pm
@ Dazzastark:
Sorry bud not sold. Good players can step into this league. Players in the A aren’t quite there yet and no matter what may never get there. Tlusty was a good AHLer. IMO he can play at that level, like a lot of players, and no further. Bozak didn’t show much in A yet in the show he looks pretty comfortable.
I’d love for someone to fully define development and what role the team plays in that and what role the player plays. Coaches can help you with some things but in the end you have to have the skill, drive and desire to succeed. That comes from within and all the coaching in the world can’t teach you that.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
honesthockey wrote:
Well, his age was always a closely guarded secret with him, but he started in 1945-46 in the AHL and aside from one season with the Rangers he stayed in the AHL until he got the nod in 1958. Then he played thirteen years with the Leafs, so I doubt he was 40 when he came up. Based on his birthdate on Wikipedia he was 34.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:24 pm
honesthockey wrote:
I remember seeing you say that regarding Colaiacovo, Stajan and Wellwood on the old NHL leafs message board. I’m thinking that I also remember on that message board you also said you grew kinda sour on Steen too. Am I accurate there as well or am I mistaken?
February 8th, 2010 at 3:30 pm
KGL24 wrote:
Nope. Always kinda liked Steen and wished it was Stajan going to the Blues. Having said that his time was short on a losing Toronto team. I won’t be sad to see Ponikarovsky and Kaberle (ok maybe a little for Kaberle) go either. Too long as part of poor Leaf teams.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:31 pm
ingy56 wrote:
Sounds about right. He only looked 40. Those weren’t wrinkles they were scars.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:41 pm
honesthockey wrote:
They may have been wrinkles, I dare anyone to play without a mask in a league with Hull, Mikita, Geoffrion etc. and not age prematurely.
February 8th, 2010 at 3:47 pm
honesthockey wrote:
Hey HH…
“fully defining” development may not be possible… however, there is a reason some teams are better at it then others.. making the NHL, contributing at the NHL and ultimately flourishing at the NHL are 3 distinct phases of the development process – that much is certain.
Though I agree with you that some of it is on the players head, a lot of it is with the organization and their overall development philosophy. How many times have we seen players succeed at the AHL level for Toronto, who never get an opportunity. Instead, the organization ends up signing some veteran to a large contract and the kid ends up getting shipped out – ultimately getting his opportunity elsewhere and becoming much more valuable then he was when Toronto disposed of him.
Development comes in multiple forms.. even if development is solely for the sake of creating value and ultimately moving that asset down the road.
You bring up a couple of interesting examples.. Tlusty for example.. have you seen the list of players, that at his age, we at least as successful as he was at the AHL level and what they went on to become in the NHL? Remember, Tlusty is still what? 2-3 years younger then Bozak and Hanson for example? what opportunity was he given at the NHL level except for a brief stint with top6 minutes as a 19 year old (in which time, he had decent relative success).. other then that, 3rd/4th line minutes at best – and then ultimately, a swift kick in the ass on the way out?
On a similar vein, you mentioned Bozak.. what opportunity has Bozak received with the big club.. top line minutes correct? this is all part of the development process. What do you figure Bozak would have done with 4th line minutes, playing with grinders and 5-7 mins of icetime? do you figure his success would be the same?
Another example is Hanson.. each time he has been up, he has been given good opportunity to succeed.. and when he wasnt ready, he was sent back down with specific objectives – when attained, he was brought back up and once again put in a position to succeed – this is proper development..
now, in contrast, look at Stalberg… who has as much talent as Bozak (different type of talent granted) and certainly is more gifted then someone like Hanson.. yet, here he is, AGAIN, on the 4th line.. so, if Stalberg plays 70 NHL games, 4th line minutes, hasnt scored 20 goals – is he suddenly a bad player? or was he not properly developed?
Now, it seems to me that the Leafs are finally learning to develop players – and that is witnessed with Bozak, Hanson and even Kadri (with the way they have dealt with him and the obvious message and direction they have sent him with respect to what they expect from him from his remaining Junior experience).. and that is great news – at least for our future..
What is frustrating however is the obvious and apparent double standard that exists for inherited prospects for the current regime vs prospects the current regime is directly responsible for..
I guess over the long haul, as long as they keep doing what they are doing with their own acquired assets – it will pay off for the Leafs and us fans.. and that is a good thing – but, the situation could be so much better if egos were checked at the door and the inherited prospects were not treated the traditional MLSE way…
Meh – end of the day – we got Phaneuf and JSG – so, my “bitch” quotient is pretty light.. but, you asked the question, and well, I felt compelled to answer
Cheers
February 8th, 2010 at 3:51 pm
@ honesthockey:
Fair enough. Just wondering, have you seen how the former Leafs have been playing with the Flames? I’ve caught some of Calgary’s game highlights but have only seen a few highlights of Stajan and Mayers. They go as follows:
#1. The give and go with Iginla to setup Stajan’s nice goal against Carolina.
#2 A defensive breakdown from Stajan failing to cover and tie up Richards which led to Richards banging in Philly’s first goal in Flames 3-0 loss to Flyers.
#1. A dump in play Started by Mayers which led to a Flames goal.
#2 In Tampa Bay with Mayers failing to pick up Stamkos skating to the net leaving Stamkos wide open to bang home a rebound and then tie the game.
February 8th, 2010 at 4:06 pm
@ Andrew R:
Tlusty can play another 20 years and still never be the player at the NHL level that he was in the minors. You can see it in his game or lack thereof. That assessment doesn’t need a million years. He did play at points with Sundin and still not much to show for it. Yep scored 2 in his first game. Then what? Good management teams can see from a mile away a player. You ask him to do something to improve a weakness at the big league level while playing in the minors. If in your assessment he can’t fix it to your satisfaction you move on and get something (Paradis) for him.
Burke (and plenty others) saw something in Bozak and Hanson. At a later age you can better assess the overall skill and not have to hope for a younger player to grow into a player. I would suggest they knew way more in what they were getting with the college boy’s who are way closer to a finished product. Bozak at this stage in his career is a huge step ahead of Tlusty and that’s obvious. He stepped up to the plate when given a chance.
Do I need to touch on Stralman and Pogge as well?
February 8th, 2010 at 4:08 pm
@ Andrew R.
“What is frustrating however is the obvious and apparent double standard that exists for inherited prospects for the current regime vs prospects the current regime is directly responsible for..”
And you just gave a “Bitchin” reason as to why they don’t wan’t anything to do with inherited prospects. They haven’t been developed properly so… see ya!
February 8th, 2010 at 4:16 pm
KGL24 wrote:
Ex-Leafs players in Calgary 4 points in 4 games. Iginla’s new set-up guy … 0 assists.
New-Leafs players from Calgary 3 points in 3 games. Sjostrom leads all 7 with 2 points.
Calgary 2-2 with 10 goals scored
Toronto 2-1 with 11 goals scored
Biggest stat.
White 2 hits Phaneuf 11 hits
Hagman 3 hits Sjostrom 10 hits
Stajan 4 hits
Mayers 6 hits
February 8th, 2010 at 4:37 pm
honesthockey wrote:
@HH – we all saw it with Stajan, yet look at what he was translated into..
We will respectfully disagree on Tlusty.. I am not saying he will be a star, but, his value will be much higher in 2-3 years then it is now – and that is something we missed out on capitalizing on..
As for Pogge – I never claimed he would be a star – just that he was not handled properly – though, by all accounts, he will be a backup in the NHL next year.. and may have as much or more upside then Gustavsson when its all said and done, so, who knows..
As for Stralman – you should not go there – the kid is flourishing in his first real chance (as I believe I told you he would) – this really is not a case you should bring up – he will put up similar or better numbers to lets say Kaberle at the same age – and looks to finish in the top 25-25 for scoring for ALL NHL D.. this is a very very bad example for you to bring up and is actually and explicitly why I left him out..
though, through all of this, I notice you have effectively dodged the discussion on “development” – which is really what all of this is about…
February 8th, 2010 at 4:52 pm
@ Andrew R:
What has Stajan translated into? Not sure I wanna even go here again.
Tlusty is what he is. Carolina will not be his last stop. I’m sure a European league will be his landing point soon.
Pogge proved nothing, still hasn’t and from all accounts had an attitude to boot. Reimer may be better. He’s only one year in.
Stralman played well enough to get his coach fired. He is part of a very weak defense and if you wanna continue down that path than we have no hope of getting better. The fact of the matter is you always need to be improving your lineup. Gunnarsson has shown me way more in year one than Stralman ever did. Take the point totals out of it for now. My bet is Gunnarsson will be the better defensemen both offesively and defensively.
I didn’t ever dodge the discussion on development. I was the one that started it remember? Jesus.
February 9th, 2010 at 10:35 am
wish I had seen this response sooner… I guess we will discuss this another day..
As for Stralman “costing” the coach his job.. honestly man, if you are going to make an argument, make an informed one.. The Columbus room revolted on Hitchcock – it was an outright and complete revolt – and a relative rookie like Stralman was not leading that charge.. Hitch really liked Stralman – funny enough, so does the new coaching team – he thrived and is thriving under both.. holy crap man – I guess being one of the best offensive D men in the league at his young age and first real season arent good enough for people to admit they may have been wrong.. he needs to win the cup, carry the team on his shoulders, teach Nash how to back check and change the way Hitchcock coaches so that his players do not revolt against him after 2-3 years.. then maybe – and only then would I need to stop reading absurd comments like this..
February 9th, 2010 at 11:45 am
All players on any given team who isn’t performing cost the coach there job. Stralman was one of them. Hitch really liked him and where is Hitch now? The new guy had one day to make some further assessments. Believe me Stralman will be one of them. Under his new coach gam,e one he played 13 mins even strength. In Hitch’s last game he played 18 mins even strength and bye bye ZHitch. Funny how I don’t see you comment on his 20 of 29 points on the PP. Maybe he should play 5 mins a night and only on the PP. You can’t put him on the ice at even strength and rely on him to perform. That’s a proven. And in 141 NHL games. He’s no rookie.
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