Langkow Suffers Odd Injury
Daymond Langkow was injured today in Calgary’s loss to the Minnesota Wild. He was shoved in the slot before taking a shot to the back of the neck. Langkow then laid dazed on the ice with his tongue hanging out of his mouth.
His status is unknown, but it was reported near the end of the second period that he does have full movement. He was taken off in a stretcher and brought to the hospital for precautionary measures.
Micheal A. Aldred
michealaldred@mapleleafshotstove.com
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:43 pm
DoubleDion wrote:
It was open to 29 other clubs last year, and not the final one of his contract, yet he wasn’t moved. IMO last year was the year not this year.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:47 pm
honesthockey wrote:
If Kaberle is capable of netting us 50 points with the new team, that will be a difficult void to fill. I just don’t see him performing anywhere near that mark given our new roster. We no longer have the Stajans, Ponikarovskys, Blakes, Hagmans, and Stempniaks that may have relied on Kaberle’s talents. Our recent history tells us that this may no longer be the case. I fully admit that this little stretch could be just an anomalous pattern and that we absolutely require Kaberle to set up at least two goals every three games.
I think that we have been pretty decent at filling the scoring void left behind by trading away most of our top two lines. I don’t see why we can’t do the same in the absence of Kaberle and his role on this new team moving forward.
This is just my opinion, and I can indeed envision BB playing an ego card and extending Kaberle just to say fuck you to the rest of the league for not ponying up his perceived return. If that is the case, something will have to give in the roster, and I am not certain that will be beneficial for the new direction of the Leafs.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:47 pm
I guess the same was said as to where this team was going to get their goals from after trading away Hagman, Blake and Stajan but somehow they are managing to get a few goals as other players have stepped into different roles, I would suggest that without Kaberle here then other D will step up and it may not be one guy who gets 60 points but maybe it is just spread out over the remaining guys.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:48 pm
and I forgot Poni
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:50 pm
Wook wrote:
guess we’re of the same opinion LOL
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:54 pm
@ Wook:
Those #’s you’ve posted twice are for a short period of one season. It’s like not being able to see past your nose, a common malady among too many Leaf fans. I get the impression you don’t understand how important a REAL puck moving defenseman is. This was discussed here early in the season and it seemed at the time that more people came to understand the value of a player like Kaberle. We have nobody to replace him right now. Nobody. Not Phaneuf, not Gunnarsson(unproven and may not have that skillset). Just because a d-man scores a few points doesn’t mean he’s a puck mover.(Kubina, McCabe) You can’t replace Kaberle by committee. Kaberle, on a better team like Washington, San Jose etc., he would have more points than he has now and probably would never have seen the – side of +/- all year. (And with better goaltending.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:59 pm
@ honesthockey:
He was very close to being moved for Kessel and in hindsight we probably should have made that deal instead of giving away the package that we gave up. But the past is the past – I agree last year would have been the year to make the move but I think Burke wavered a bit and perhaps wasn’t 100% sure that he wanted to move him that quickly. The fact of the matter is that with the Phaneuf deal Kaberle’s future with the Leafs went out the window. We either get some assets back and while they may not be superstar assets – they will be significant pieces to the forward group for sure. The leafs simply cannot afford to resign Kabs for what he’ll be looking for – this contract will likely be his last in the league and he and his agent will be looking for at LEAST market value (which in this case will be very high due to some unfortunate contracts given out the past few years by numerous teams to these types of D-men). So basically the decision is this – give Kabs an extension and tie up even more money on our blueline and hope to god that EVERY one of our prospects make godly strides in a small amount of time or we take a package that includes a top 6, a prospect and a pick that will help our forward group (and if the rumored Washington offer is true then its a certainty we can get this type of deal done) cut our losses with Kaberle and use our savings in the 2011-2012 free agent pool when some real superstars become avail.
March 22nd, 2010 at 2:59 pm
I think if you look back I have said for over two years that the goals from up front were easily replaced. They were all 2nd tier numbers. My opinion only increased during the pre-season when Bozak was clearly the best center of the group. Kadri was a close second and will be a huge addition next year. I was totally shocked when we came out o that pre-season with that lineup.
I have no doubt we will get production out of the back end with or without Kaberle. If, like in the forward group, there is a defensemen that is a better option than Kaberle than by all means move him for whatever. I didn’t see it in the pre-season or in the past at this point. If Burke thinks that maybe Blacker or Aulie has past him on the depth chart than I am sure he moves.
BTW the top TWO lines have been out performing the opposition nightly since the trade deadline. Add Kadri and that increases. Why do we think this is where we need to expend our energy?
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
@ honesthockey:
Its about winning a cup not just battling for 8th or 9th every year. While the kids have been performing admirably the past stretch do you really feel confident that this group will be able to score consistantly for an entire season next year? These are all rookies who will be streaky – what happens if Bozak has a Schenn-type sophmore year? What happends if Kessel gets hurt for a stretch? I mean its not like we’re lighting the lamp every night for 4 or 5 goals lately – lots of very tight games / a few shootout wins all while the pressure is completely off in the TO dressing room – we’ve seen this surge every year for the past 5 and while this years players are completely different I’m just not sold that this group can carry the load night in and night out for 82 games.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:06 pm
DoubleDion wrote:
How does adding Phaneuf throw Kaberle’s future out the window? Again I’ll state that Kaberle has made it obvious he wants to stay in Toronto. The Leafs hold all the cards when it comes to contract negotiations here. Burke throws out a number and it’s take it or leave it. If he wants to stay that bad he’ll stay. And dude there isn’t a chance in hell that we get a top 6, a prospect and a pick for Kaberle at this point.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:13 pm
Bob is your uncle wrote:
One has to consider that this team has changed dramatically from top to bottom, and unfortunately, we only have a short duration of the season to examine the facts. I have repeatedly stated such a caveat to my opinions. I do not think that it is unrealistic to use such a duration to gauge the potential role of a player when the team is drastically different. How meaningful is it to use historical data when virtually none of the parts remain on this roster?
I would argue that you too suffer from the common malady that plagues many fans. I do not think that it is wise to ignore numbers, especially when you have almost a new team. Kaberle’s skills most certainly will prove to be valuable to many teams, especially those that lack what he brings to the table. The point here is that the new roster has shown that Kaberle may not be that valuable, if at all.
If the Leafs were primed to compete for the cup (i.e. we do not need any significant improvements at the forward positions and have sound goaltending), I think that it is easy to make the case to extend Kaberle at the cost of long term improvement of the team. However, we are no where near that level, hence my belief that we are better off trading him away. I used the numbers to make some points because that is all there is to talk about in terms of the new team. I truly do not believe that what Kaberle did with Stajan’s crew and the perennial losers of the recent past weigh that much on what BB should do with Kaberle.
This point of view, of course, does not demean the important role a puck moving defenseman for any given team. However, one has to evaluate that perceived role for a given team at the right time scale.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:14 pm
DoubleDion wrote:
Ahh buddy the last 5 year bullshit? Come on. If you can’t see that this is a better team than any one of those 5 than you and I are watching different games. Your what if scenarios go a lot of different ways. Remember Jason Blake had 40 goals the year before he joined Toronto. I agree with you on one thing. It’s not about 8th or 9th place. We’ve seen what adding players to a team on the playoff bubble does. The Leafs tried it for years. It hasn’t worked. The young guys have been told that jobs are there to be had. They are producing so they are doing what is being asked. Isn’t that the type of atmosphere this team has needed for years?
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Bob is your uncle wrote:
why not by committee?
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:18 pm
Wook wrote:
OK so adding say Ryan makes sense but adding Marleau doesn’t?
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:19 pm
honesthockey wrote:
I am not sure what you are asking me.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:19 pm
lonsmos2 wrote:
Show me a winning team who does it and I’ll jump on board!
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:20 pm
@ Wook:
arent you due in court….
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:25 pm
derek wrote:
I guess there is a bit of an asshole in everyone, but I am not trying to be one on purpose. I just simply enjoy exchanging opinions based on some facts with a dash of hearsay and BS.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:26 pm
Wook wrote:
You suggest at this point that keeping Kaberle doesn’t make sense because the team won’t be competing for the cup. Than adding a 30 year old Marleau for instance must equally make no sense.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:27 pm
@ honesthockey:
I’m not saying that the team doesn’t look headed in the right direction so don’t get your panties in a knot. In fact I did mention that its a different scenario this year b/c of all the new young guys (different players). You have to remember that these are all rookies who have been playing in these roles for the last quarter of the season – in order to be where we want to be next year basically we would have to hope that NOT ONE of these guys regresses and that EVERY rookie / prospect significantly gets better. Its really tough to see that happening – every year rookies regress (look at Schenn, Versteeg etc.) its part of the learning process – I just think that in order to let these kids develop properly you have to be realistic – we need more support. In an ideal world we would have Kadri play a year in the AHL to develop ala Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan etc. etc. Yet we are putting Gilmour-like pressure on him already! Thats why we have a terrible history of developing prospects. We get pissed that they aren’t what we expected in the first season or two of their careers and then ship them off for minimal return and watch them flourish elsewhere.
Dion Phaneuf’s salary is what painted the picture for Kabs future – as of right now for next year we have 26.5 mill committed to 7 defensman – that is without a significant raise for Kabs (UFA 2011-2012), Luke Schenn (RFA 2011 – 2012) and Carl Gunnarson (RFA 2011-2012 RFA). We also don’t have the luxury of bringing in top end cheap talent via the draft for the next 2 years to supplement our forward group.
And regarding Kabs’ trade value – take a look at the rumored proposal that was turned down from Washington AND YES I KNOW ITS ONLY A RUMOR – Flieschman (young top 6), Alzner (young prospect) and a pick – it might not be Staal, Tangredi and a 1st – but the top 6, prospect, pick value is definitely out there.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:28 pm
Wook wrote:
Here here! It’s all good.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:29 pm
Wook wrote:
i didnt mean to insult you…just commenting on your vocabulary….you use words that alot of people would not use….i am still trying to figure out the meaning of caveat, and malady…
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:31 pm
honesthockey wrote:
Phoenix Coyotes is a good example, and I can envision Phaneuf producing as much as Myers does for Buffalo next season.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:36 pm
honesthockey wrote:
New Jersey, Vancouver, Phoenix, Colorado
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:37 pm
derek wrote:
Caveat isn’t that when you eat in a cave? LOL
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:40 pm
Panties in a knot? Wow.
Look to suggest that all or any of the rookies regress is a guess. Could it happen? Absolutely. Did a player like Versteeg regress because ice he may have taken is now taken by a Hossa? Who knows why. To me Schenn was improperly used early this year and his confidence faded. The Getzlaf/Perry thing is getting old and incorrect. They played 19 and 17 games in the AHL. Can you actually say that they wouldn’t have done just as well had they played those games in the NHL?
Again your rumours mean nothing but just that. If Washington was indeed one of three teams Kaberle had on his list and that deal was on the table than he would be a Capital and we wouldn’t be discussing.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:41 pm
lonsmos2 wrote:
Cups?
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:49 pm
lonsmos2 wrote:
i do believe your right….and ma lady will be home from work soon so i better get the laundry folded and dishes done or maybe be caveating….
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
honesthockey wrote:
2005 /06 Carolina Hurricanes
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:52 pm
honesthockey wrote:
I see. However, I think that we are talking apples and oranges here. If Marleau was currently on contract with the Leafs and the question arose as to whether or not extend his contract or trade him for someone like Ryan and a draft pick, then the situation becomes a bit more comparable. If Marleau was in the same boat as Kaberle (i.e. diminishing role, plummeting production, defensive liability, no leadership, no personality, etc.) with his ice time taken over by young players, I would definitely say trade him to help the rebuild process. If you can get a guy like Ryan+ for an aging player on a decline, why not? Especially when we are not competing for the cup anytime soon.
However, that is of course not the case. Marleau is arguably playing at his peak and he does not belong to the Leafs. Also, Marleau will be a UFA and Ryan will be an RFA, both asking for the sky.
If anything I would like to see improvement to the third line and hope to see Kadri fitting into the second centre role. It will be nice to have a power forward to play on one of the top two lines as well. Other than that, I like this team the way it is for now and with the added help may slide into the playoffs. There are too many question marks surrounding the goaltenders to be going after the likes of Marleau and the associated cap hit. If we can get Ryan for Kaberle somehow, he will effectively replace Kaberle’s cap hit (and a little more) so I would be all for it. But I doubt that this happens unless we give up additional significant prospect and/or roster player.
Until we have solid goaltending, I say we hold off on big UFA tickets and let the kids develop together.
March 22nd, 2010 at 3:56 pm
lonsmos2 wrote:
Exact type of breakdown the Leafs have this year. Now take out the Toronto Kaberle.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:02 pm
Wook wrote:
OK now I’m starting to see common ground. Would I trade Kaberle for Bobby Ryan at 23? Makes more sense to me now. Starts limiting our trading partners though doesn’t it? I, like you, would like to see significant upgrades on line 3.
And I wanna see what these young guys can do for a bit as well. Then add the pieces we need to take us over the top.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:04 pm
@ honesthockey
The chance of all of our prospects panning out and exceeding expectations next year is simply just that as well. I’m simply playing devil’s advocate here as I would like nothing more than to see every kid absolutely tear the league apart next year.
As for the Perry, Getzlaf, Ryan argument – Perry 19 gms plus 3 playoff gms in the A, Getzlaf – 17 gms + 10 playoff games and the prime expample Ryan 70 gms + 35 playoff gms. Look we can go back and forth on this all day and there is no way to know if they would have been the same had they jumped right into the N – but many hockey ppl believe in slower development – look at alot of the stars who had the lockout year to play in the AHL or in Pro somewhere. I think that Toronto is an extremely unique market and we do not have a great history of developing our draft picks. I personally would like to see them take things a little bit slower with guys like Kadri, Didomineco Caputi etc. and just make sure that they are ready to perform night in and night out in the hardest hockey market in the world. But the reality is we are so thin up front right now that we don’t have that option – we have stripped the Marlies bare to ice an NHL roster for the rest of the year. I would just like to see us getting some top level support for next year – some insulation so that the kids can develop properly regardless of wether that is in the NHL or in the A and I believe one of the best ways to do this and to also be highly succesful 2 or 3 years down the road is to get some assets for Kabs and not tie up even more $ on the back end. Its all opinion just like your arguments.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:21 pm
DoubleDion wrote:
And it is all opinons which we can discuss and that’s a good thing right? To me if a player is your best option his birth certificate means zero. I am not as sold as most on the AHL development theory. I look at a Bozak and see a player who’s game was NHL level yet you put him in the AHL with Andre Deveaux as his winger and you get what you get. Getzlaf and Perry had each other. Both elite talents as both proved. Most high end NHLers step right in. I’m talking the 70 – 90 point guy’s of which I think in 2 – 3 years Kadri is. In all honesty Bozak could very well have been buried and we may never have seen what he has in the NHL based on his AHL play. Some times good players need players who can play at their level to shine.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:31 pm
@ honesthockey:
100% agree and the Bozak argument is a good one – although his season was a bit of a mess before being called up (Swine Flu, injuries, disappointment at being cut etc.) – the thing about some of the college guys is that they are older, more mature and physically developed. I just worry (and maybe this is a result of soooo many disappointments in the past) that Kadri at 19 shouldn’t have the expectation to produce at an elite level right off the bat (not saying that you believe this either). Its just that finally we have a kid who is destroying the OHL, played well in pre-season, and looks to be all of the things that we have desperately wanted / needed in the past few years. But the fact is – he is not a can’t miss ala Kane, Stamkos, Doughty and the media in TO and alot of the fans are already calling him the next Gilmour, calling for him to be our #1 center right away. I just don’t want to see us ruin this kid right away – he’s so young and the most important thing next year should be learning his future role and learning the NHL game – elite production should really be viewed as a bonus not as a necessity.
March 22nd, 2010 at 4:45 pm
DoubleDion wrote:
Hey I agree with all except you can’t learn the NHL game in the AHL. Will he ahve his ups and downs? Absolutely. Will he become better for it? If he doesn’t he just wasn’t meant to be. Not sure playing anywhere else but here can fix that. Because there are no do overs in life I am not convinced Toronto has hurt anyones career by playing them early. The analogy that it doesn’t hurt them to play in the minors doesn’t fly with me. How do they know? How do they know that if Getzlaf was playing in the NHL day one he wouldn’t be better than he is? It’s the same thought process in reverse.