Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem

by on January 22, 2013 in Analysis - 748 Comments

Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem
CHRISTINNE MUSCHI /REUTERS
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Despite the Roberto Luongo to Toronto trade rumours, the Leafs have begun the season with a pair of young netminders manning their crease. The duo of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens came into this year with a combined 83 starts between them. In a hockey-crazed town that hasn’t seen playoff action since 2004, all of these factors haven’t stopped management from holding firm in their beliefs in their talents while not giving up good assets for an established goalie.

You would think an experienced management team, such as the one overseeing the Leafs, would like to solidify their goaltending as soon as possible when you consider the young team they are icing, yet they have not to this point. This isn’t the first time an NHL team has gone down the path of running with two inexperienced goalies, and it surely won’t be the last. To give you an idea of how young goalie tandems have turned out, I looked up every team’s starting tandem since 1997, and recorded every goalie duo I found where both starters had less than three years of experience, just like Reimer and Scrivens.

Young NHL goalie tandems

Team
Season
Tandem
SV%
GAA
Personal record
Team record
Standings
AVERAGE0.9092.817.6
Bruins2005-2006T. Thomas0.9172.7712-13-10-29-37-1613th in East
H. Toivenen0.9142.639-5-4-
A. Raycroft0.8754.233-9-1-
2006-2007T. Thomas0.9053.1330-29-4-35-41-613th in East
H. Toivenen0.8754.233-9-1-
Sabres2001-2002M. Biron0.9152.2231-28-10-35-35-11-19th in East
M. Noronen0.8942.664-3-1-
Hurricanes2005-2006C. Ward0.8823.6814-8-2-52-22-82nd in East- Won Cup
M. Gerber0.9062.7838-14-6-
Kings2005-2006J. Labarbera0.92.8911-9-2-42-35-510th in West
M. Garon0.8943.2231-26-3
2008-2009J. Quick0.9142.4821-18-234-37-1114th in West
E. Ersberg0.92.648-11-5-
J. Labarbera0.8932.835-8-4-
2009-2010J. Quick0.9072.5439-24-746-27-96th in West- Rd. 1
E. Ersberg0.9062.44-3-2-
J. Bernier0.9571.33-0
2010-2011J. Quick0.9182.2435-22-346-30-67th in West- Rd. 1
J. Bernier0.9132.4811-8-3-
Wild2007-2008N. Backstrom0.922.3133-13-8-44-28-103rd in West- Rd. 1
J. Harding0.9082.9411-15-2-
Habs2008-2009C. Price0.9052.8323-16-10-41-30-118th in East- Rd. 1
J. Halak0.9152.8618-14-1
2009-2010C. Price0.9122.7713-20-5-39-33-108th in East- ECF
J. Halak0.9242.426-13-5-
Predators2008-2009P. Rinne0.9172.3829-15-440-34-810th in West
D. Ellis0.92.9311-19-4
2009-2010P. Rinne0.9112.5332-16-547-29-67th in West- Rd. 1
D. Ellis0.9092.6915-13-1
Islanders1997-1998W. Flaherty0.9261.994-4-3-30-41-1110th in East
T. Salo0.9062.6423-29-5
E. Fichaud0.9052.973-8-3-
2008-2009Y. Danis0.912.8610-17-326-47-915th in East
J. MacDonald0.9013.3714-26-6
Rangers2007-2008H. Lundqvist0.9122.2337-24-1042-27-135th in East- Rd. 2
S. Valiquette0.9162.195-3-3-
Senators2000-2001P. Lalime0.9142.3536-19-548-21-9-32nd in East- Rd. 1
J. Hurme0.9042.512-5-4-
Flyers2000-2001R. Cechmanek0.9212.0135-15-643-25-11-24th in East- Rd. 1
B. Boucher0.8763.278-12-5-
2001-2002R. Cechmanek0.9212.0524-13-642-27-10-32nd in East- Rd. 2
B. Boucher0.9052.4118-16-4
2002-2003R. Cechmanek0.9251.8333-15-1045-20-13-44th in East- Rd. 2
R. Esche0.9072.212-9-3-
Sharks2001-2002E. Nabokov0.9182.2937-24-544-27-8-33rd in West- Rd. 2
M. Kiprusouff0.9152.487-6-3-
2002-2003E. Nabokov0.9062.7119-28-828-37-9-814th in West
M. Kiprusoff0.8793.255-14-0
V. Toskala0.9272.354-3-1-
2011-2012A. Niemi0.9142.4234-22-943-29-107th in West- Rd. 1
T. Greiss0.9152.39-7-1-
Leafs2011-2012J. Reimer0.93.114-14-435-37-1013th in East
J. Gustavsson0.9022.9217-17-4
Capitals2010-2011M. Neuvirth0.9142.4527-12-4-48-23-111st in East- Rd. 2
S. Varlamov0.9242.2311-9-5-
B. Holtby0.9341.7910-2-2-

Other than the Islanders and 2005-2006 Kings, along with a jury still out on Toronto, San Jose, and possibly Washington, all of the teams emerged with a bonafide number one for some period of time. From Tim Thomas and Jonathon Quick, to Patrick Lalime, Henrik Lundqvist and Evgeny Nabokov, these are just some of the goalies that emerged from young duos to become successful goalies in this league.

Further to the point, not all of these goalies were exactly dripping in pedigree and upside when they first began here. Tim Thomas was basically taking one last kick at the can after failing to stick in the NHL and going off to Europe during his first go-around, Lundqvist was a 7th round pick who worked his way to New York (sound familiar?), Quick, after quickly showing he was too good for the AHL, actually staved off a guy in Jonathon Bernier, who the Kings had drafted to be their guy in the first round.

Goaltending is by far the hardest position to predict, especially when it comes to drafting kids to be your starter five years down the road. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

That’s partly an endorsement on Luongo, but that’s also partly an endorsement on Reimer and Scrivens. Everybody knows Luongo is, at the very least, an above average goalie on a contract with an absurd term. The pros and cons of Luongo have already been covered by the masses, so there’s nothing really to add anymore.

But what the Leafs currently have, however, aren’t exactly bums. This isn’t the Islanders running a tandem of Yan Danis and Joey MacDonald. Dave Nonis actually summed it up best when he said, “The only issue I would have with our goaltending would be experience. It’s not that they’re not quality goalies.”

James Reimer, albeit in a limited amount of games, showed he could play in the NHL at a high level in his 37 game stint during the 2010-2011 season. Before then, he was good in the AHL, ECHL and in the WHL even before that. He didn’t just come out of nowhere to play 37 good games, causing Toronto to make a rash decision. He’s been a good goalie at every level he’s played at, has good size for position, and an even better mentality.

Meanwhile, Ben Scrivens has been one of the best goalies in the AHL for the last season and a half. Prior to being signed by the Leafs, he absolutely dominated the college circuit. He too has shown flashes at the NHL level of being able to compete at a high level.

So what does this all mean? That if the Leafs run with Scrivens and Reimer, eventually one will step up and become a star? Not necessarily. However, in my estimation, it means enough to me that I’d be willing to run with the two in a 48 game season to see if one emerges as the clear front runner between the two. Clearly Scrivens has the advantage because he’s in midseason form, but Reimer is in the same boat as most NHL goalies at the moment (having not played actual games during the lockout), and hopefully, for his sake, he will be able to get his game going and subsequently create an environment in which both goalies challenge each other for starts nightly.

James Reimer ($1.8M) and Ben Scrivens (612k) are both under contract for next year at extremely cheap deals for goalies. If both play well, the Leafs can just keep both again and go from there. If only one plays well, they can easily cut bait with the other and look to bring in a more experienced guy to support the one who wins the gig (Backstrom, Thomas, Theodore and Garon are all UFAs and solid goalies). And if they both struggle? I’m sure Luongo will still be available. Nobody else seems to want him anyway.

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  • Great dane

     Very well put  therefore there is no down side in testing what we got for 48 games.

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  • Great dane

     Detroit is well stocked at forward so let us make a deal with them

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  • BurkiewillFINISHthis

    I am willing to see what we have in the 2 young goalies….won’t be good for my heart….but I am willing.

    And I think we should offer Franson the same luxury…..you know…as opposed to never letting the kid get into a groove since he came here.

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  • rustynail

    QFT

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  • rustynail

    Tony Grace ‏@tonygrace
    BREAKING – CNN: reports of shooting at a college in #Texas. Chopper shows live shots of people on the ground, numerous EMS workers.

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  • Mike Gillis

    Franson for Datsyuk? Or maybe Franson for Franzen?? Those seem like fair deals to me

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  • phaneufoundlander

     How about Franzen for Franson lol

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  • Burtonboy

    Oh shit ..here we go again

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  • rustynail

    it appears so

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  • BurkiewillFINISHthis

    Are you serious ?

    More killing……gz.

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  • Anthony Petrielli

    I think there’s two kind-of-but-not-really worst case scenarios here: 

    1) They both suck and the Leafs do terribly, resulting in another high pick.2) The goalies play well, the Leafs do decent, but don’t make the playoffs (AKA 10th place or something). However, at least then they may have found a goaltender of the future between the two to role with. 

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  • Great dane

     sshhhhh – then nobody needs to change shirts.

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  • phaneufoundlander

     Dear God, no again.

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  • phaneufoundlander

     Yes, cuz Im sure no one can spell only MLHS folks lol

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  • dtime66

    yes, agree with this article. leafs have Reimer, Scrivens, Rynnas, Ouwya, Sparks. Hopefully one of them is a legit NHL starter. This is not a significant season so no need to rush and acquire #1. The way Hiller has been playing he may be an available vet next year too.

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  • keon

    Ya, Wregget and Bester, how did that work out?

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  • rustynail

    Apparenty it was last night and 3 killed shoot out with police perp and 1 officer and a by stander, doesn’t appear to be related to the school even if it was in College Station

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  • rustynail

    >>>>>>>>>>

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  • TheCanucksnaphook

    man i loved Bester.

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  • phaneufoundlander

     We got Wendel, that was about it lol

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  • rustynail

    In those days dd anything work out for us?

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  • keon

    He was an asshole apparently

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  • keon

    Wendel

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  • rustynail

    1st overall does sometimes work even for us.

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  • keon

    Grange on Scrivens:

    Amidst the gleaming Audis and Porsches and bonus money SUVs with every conceivable motoring convenience is a 1998 Chevrolet S1500 pick-up truck that Scrivens bought off a guy on Kijiji back home in Alberta after he graduated from Cornell University in 2010.

    “I treated myself,” he says.But that was three years ago, and while Scrivens hasn’t exactly hit the mother lode in his brief professional hockey career his first pay cheque this season will be for a pro-rated share of $600,000 — which is a big step up from the $67,500 he was making his first year in the AHL for the Toronto Marlies.

    But Scrivens won’t be trading in his wheels for something that meets his teammates’ approval any time soon.

    “I’m still budget conscious, put it that way,” he said. “I’m frugal. I honestly don’t know if I’ll ever buy a brand new car. I think it’s the biggest waste of money. If someone wants to give me a new car, have at her.

    “(But) I’d rather spend my money on a vacation, travelling the world and doing experiential things (than) having you guys say, oh nice car. That’s my stance.”

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