Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem

by on January 22, 2013 in Analysis - 748 Comments

Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem
CHRISTINNE MUSCHI /REUTERS
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Despite the Roberto Luongo to Toronto trade rumours, the Leafs have begun the season with a pair of young netminders manning their crease. The duo of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens came into this year with a combined 83 starts between them. In a hockey-crazed town that hasn’t seen playoff action since 2004, all of these factors haven’t stopped management from holding firm in their beliefs in their talents while not giving up good assets for an established goalie.

You would think an experienced management team, such as the one overseeing the Leafs, would like to solidify their goaltending as soon as possible when you consider the young team they are icing, yet they have not to this point. This isn’t the first time an NHL team has gone down the path of running with two inexperienced goalies, and it surely won’t be the last. To give you an idea of how young goalie tandems have turned out, I looked up every team’s starting tandem since 1997, and recorded every goalie duo I found where both starters had less than three years of experience, just like Reimer and Scrivens.

Young NHL goalie tandems

Team
Season
Tandem
SV%
GAA
Personal record
Team record
Standings
AVERAGE0.9092.817.6
Bruins2005-2006T. Thomas0.9172.7712-13-10-29-37-1613th in East
H. Toivenen0.9142.639-5-4-
A. Raycroft0.8754.233-9-1-
2006-2007T. Thomas0.9053.1330-29-4-35-41-613th in East
H. Toivenen0.8754.233-9-1-
Sabres2001-2002M. Biron0.9152.2231-28-10-35-35-11-19th in East
M. Noronen0.8942.664-3-1-
Hurricanes2005-2006C. Ward0.8823.6814-8-2-52-22-82nd in East- Won Cup
M. Gerber0.9062.7838-14-6-
Kings2005-2006J. Labarbera0.92.8911-9-2-42-35-510th in West
M. Garon0.8943.2231-26-3
2008-2009J. Quick0.9142.4821-18-234-37-1114th in West
E. Ersberg0.92.648-11-5-
J. Labarbera0.8932.835-8-4-
2009-2010J. Quick0.9072.5439-24-746-27-96th in West- Rd. 1
E. Ersberg0.9062.44-3-2-
J. Bernier0.9571.33-0
2010-2011J. Quick0.9182.2435-22-346-30-67th in West- Rd. 1
J. Bernier0.9132.4811-8-3-
Wild2007-2008N. Backstrom0.922.3133-13-8-44-28-103rd in West- Rd. 1
J. Harding0.9082.9411-15-2-
Habs2008-2009C. Price0.9052.8323-16-10-41-30-118th in East- Rd. 1
J. Halak0.9152.8618-14-1
2009-2010C. Price0.9122.7713-20-5-39-33-108th in East- ECF
J. Halak0.9242.426-13-5-
Predators2008-2009P. Rinne0.9172.3829-15-440-34-810th in West
D. Ellis0.92.9311-19-4
2009-2010P. Rinne0.9112.5332-16-547-29-67th in West- Rd. 1
D. Ellis0.9092.6915-13-1
Islanders1997-1998W. Flaherty0.9261.994-4-3-30-41-1110th in East
T. Salo0.9062.6423-29-5
E. Fichaud0.9052.973-8-3-
2008-2009Y. Danis0.912.8610-17-326-47-915th in East
J. MacDonald0.9013.3714-26-6
Rangers2007-2008H. Lundqvist0.9122.2337-24-1042-27-135th in East- Rd. 2
S. Valiquette0.9162.195-3-3-
Senators2000-2001P. Lalime0.9142.3536-19-548-21-9-32nd in East- Rd. 1
J. Hurme0.9042.512-5-4-
Flyers2000-2001R. Cechmanek0.9212.0135-15-643-25-11-24th in East- Rd. 1
B. Boucher0.8763.278-12-5-
2001-2002R. Cechmanek0.9212.0524-13-642-27-10-32nd in East- Rd. 2
B. Boucher0.9052.4118-16-4
2002-2003R. Cechmanek0.9251.8333-15-1045-20-13-44th in East- Rd. 2
R. Esche0.9072.212-9-3-
Sharks2001-2002E. Nabokov0.9182.2937-24-544-27-8-33rd in West- Rd. 2
M. Kiprusouff0.9152.487-6-3-
2002-2003E. Nabokov0.9062.7119-28-828-37-9-814th in West
M. Kiprusoff0.8793.255-14-0
V. Toskala0.9272.354-3-1-
2011-2012A. Niemi0.9142.4234-22-943-29-107th in West- Rd. 1
T. Greiss0.9152.39-7-1-
Leafs2011-2012J. Reimer0.93.114-14-435-37-1013th in East
J. Gustavsson0.9022.9217-17-4
Capitals2010-2011M. Neuvirth0.9142.4527-12-4-48-23-111st in East- Rd. 2
S. Varlamov0.9242.2311-9-5-
B. Holtby0.9341.7910-2-2-

Other than the Islanders and 2005-2006 Kings, along with a jury still out on Toronto, San Jose, and possibly Washington, all of the teams emerged with a bonafide number one for some period of time. From Tim Thomas and Jonathon Quick, to Patrick Lalime, Henrik Lundqvist and Evgeny Nabokov, these are just some of the goalies that emerged from young duos to become successful goalies in this league.

Further to the point, not all of these goalies were exactly dripping in pedigree and upside when they first began here. Tim Thomas was basically taking one last kick at the can after failing to stick in the NHL and going off to Europe during his first go-around, Lundqvist was a 7th round pick who worked his way to New York (sound familiar?), Quick, after quickly showing he was too good for the AHL, actually staved off a guy in Jonathon Bernier, who the Kings had drafted to be their guy in the first round.

Goaltending is by far the hardest position to predict, especially when it comes to drafting kids to be your starter five years down the road. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

That’s partly an endorsement on Luongo, but that’s also partly an endorsement on Reimer and Scrivens. Everybody knows Luongo is, at the very least, an above average goalie on a contract with an absurd term. The pros and cons of Luongo have already been covered by the masses, so there’s nothing really to add anymore.

But what the Leafs currently have, however, aren’t exactly bums. This isn’t the Islanders running a tandem of Yan Danis and Joey MacDonald. Dave Nonis actually summed it up best when he said, “The only issue I would have with our goaltending would be experience. It’s not that they’re not quality goalies.”

James Reimer, albeit in a limited amount of games, showed he could play in the NHL at a high level in his 37 game stint during the 2010-2011 season. Before then, he was good in the AHL, ECHL and in the WHL even before that. He didn’t just come out of nowhere to play 37 good games, causing Toronto to make a rash decision. He’s been a good goalie at every level he’s played at, has good size for position, and an even better mentality.

Meanwhile, Ben Scrivens has been one of the best goalies in the AHL for the last season and a half. Prior to being signed by the Leafs, he absolutely dominated the college circuit. He too has shown flashes at the NHL level of being able to compete at a high level.

So what does this all mean? That if the Leafs run with Scrivens and Reimer, eventually one will step up and become a star? Not necessarily. However, in my estimation, it means enough to me that I’d be willing to run with the two in a 48 game season to see if one emerges as the clear front runner between the two. Clearly Scrivens has the advantage because he’s in midseason form, but Reimer is in the same boat as most NHL goalies at the moment (having not played actual games during the lockout), and hopefully, for his sake, he will be able to get his game going and subsequently create an environment in which both goalies challenge each other for starts nightly.

James Reimer ($1.8M) and Ben Scrivens (612k) are both under contract for next year at extremely cheap deals for goalies. If both play well, the Leafs can just keep both again and go from there. If only one plays well, they can easily cut bait with the other and look to bring in a more experienced guy to support the one who wins the gig (Backstrom, Thomas, Theodore and Garon are all UFAs and solid goalies). And if they both struggle? I’m sure Luongo will still be available. Nobody else seems to want him anyway.

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  • http://www.hockey-nerd.com Cameron

    Perhaps not, but Subban is an absolutely brutal defensive defender.  Phaneuf continues to best Subban’s offense, but he can also be trusted for 26+ minutes against the best forwards in the league – and that’s with goaltending that is often porous. 
    -
    Don’t get me wrong.  I don’t have a problem with Subban, and I’m sure he’ll continue to improve that element of his game.  But to compare the two directly right now is a very lopsided match-up.

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  • Whalz

    we are not in the same model as the OILERS playing all their young players to get expericence,,,,,,,,,,

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  • peterbleafs

     Yet it makes sense.  Now were I able to meet you in person, I would actually enjoy punching you in the face.

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  • Leafs_17

    i see the same things in Scrivens just not as big 

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  • leafsforlife

    I dont want Subban on the Leafs either. I was just considering what it would take. I really dont want Gardiner or Rielly moved out at all for anyone. So dont leave a whole lot after that.

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  • ingy56

    Maybe…I’m pretty sure that sale was approved on its own merits and Bettman likes the idea of media conglomerates in ownership no doubt. Just that Gretzky is estranged from the league right now and I have no doubt Bettman wants him back in the loop. 

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  • Pent_House

    Come on down, I’ll meet ya at the acc in 30 mins lol 

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  • peterbleafs

     Exactly.  He is a lightning rod for controversy and that is not what makes a cup contender.  However, to sell tickets he would be awesome for any team that gets him.

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  • 4evrblue

    The Oilers have a lot of older players on their team

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    Plus, we dont want the habs sloppy seconds :D

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  • darthNihilus

    nik kulemin

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  • 4evrblue

    I think he’ll be good too. I did simply say I thought Bishop would be good. I wouldn’t trade Scrivs or Reimer for him right now though.

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  • peterbleafs

     Im in Houston.  And really Im non violent…just something about your personality that irks me.  Not sure what it is but really dislike you for some reason lol

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  • wiski

    cough Komi cough

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  • mcloki

    We could always send Montral Percy for PK.

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  • peterbleafs

     I do not see PK and Phaneuf co-habitating on the same team for long.

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    Dude it would coast more than that.  

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  • Whalz

    but look at all the young kids they have,,,with a few vets,,,,,

    leafs have a few young kids and the majority being mid 20-30,,,,,,,,

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  • http://www.hockey-nerd.com Cameron

    I don’t know how I did so in this case.  I said I didn’t know how to evaluate goalies, and added that I believe nobody else does either (hence the wild discrepancy at the draft and the 10 year development period for most of them).  This was me being a know-it-all?
    -
    Please don’t pretend that just because I didn’t play major junior hockey that I did not play the sport.  I played it most of my life and grew up around NHL’ers.  I don’t pretend that I’ve somehow absorbed their knowledge of the game, but it’s not as though everything I say was learned on a computer screen, either. 

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  • ingy56

    Haha…if that were to happen we could see the smoke from the fires in Ontario.

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  • Leafs_17

    i would for the right price and since it would be a trade where they are in a position of weakness (having to trade a player that doesn’t want to sign with them) it might be do-able without Reilly or Gards 

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  • Inchesstyle

    i think leafs will trade kulimen to pitt and leafs will bring up frattin

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  • keon

    perhaps it’s the underscore_

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    Well, Everyone has been on the same bus as Dion lol

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  • Pent_House

    It’s probably because I’ve been giving you a hard time for the last 2 seasons. 

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