Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem

by on January 22, 2013 in Analysis - 748 Comments

Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem
CHRISTINNE MUSCHI /REUTERS
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Despite the Roberto Luongo to Toronto trade rumours, the Leafs have begun the season with a pair of young netminders manning their crease. The duo of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens came into this year with a combined 83 starts between them. In a hockey-crazed town that hasn’t seen playoff action since 2004, all of these factors haven’t stopped management from holding firm in their beliefs in their talents while not giving up good assets for an established goalie.

You would think an experienced management team, such as the one overseeing the Leafs, would like to solidify their goaltending as soon as possible when you consider the young team they are icing, yet they have not to this point. This isn’t the first time an NHL team has gone down the path of running with two inexperienced goalies, and it surely won’t be the last. To give you an idea of how young goalie tandems have turned out, I looked up every team’s starting tandem since 1997, and recorded every goalie duo I found where both starters had less than three years of experience, just like Reimer and Scrivens.

Young NHL goalie tandems

Team
Season
Tandem
SV%
GAA
Personal record
Team record
Standings
AVERAGE0.9092.817.6
Bruins2005-2006T. Thomas0.9172.7712-13-10-29-37-1613th in East
H. Toivenen0.9142.639-5-4-
A. Raycroft0.8754.233-9-1-
2006-2007T. Thomas0.9053.1330-29-4-35-41-613th in East
H. Toivenen0.8754.233-9-1-
Sabres2001-2002M. Biron0.9152.2231-28-10-35-35-11-19th in East
M. Noronen0.8942.664-3-1-
Hurricanes2005-2006C. Ward0.8823.6814-8-2-52-22-82nd in East- Won Cup
M. Gerber0.9062.7838-14-6-
Kings2005-2006J. Labarbera0.92.8911-9-2-42-35-510th in West
M. Garon0.8943.2231-26-3
2008-2009J. Quick0.9142.4821-18-234-37-1114th in West
E. Ersberg0.92.648-11-5-
J. Labarbera0.8932.835-8-4-
2009-2010J. Quick0.9072.5439-24-746-27-96th in West- Rd. 1
E. Ersberg0.9062.44-3-2-
J. Bernier0.9571.33-0
2010-2011J. Quick0.9182.2435-22-346-30-67th in West- Rd. 1
J. Bernier0.9132.4811-8-3-
Wild2007-2008N. Backstrom0.922.3133-13-8-44-28-103rd in West- Rd. 1
J. Harding0.9082.9411-15-2-
Habs2008-2009C. Price0.9052.8323-16-10-41-30-118th in East- Rd. 1
J. Halak0.9152.8618-14-1
2009-2010C. Price0.9122.7713-20-5-39-33-108th in East- ECF
J. Halak0.9242.426-13-5-
Predators2008-2009P. Rinne0.9172.3829-15-440-34-810th in West
D. Ellis0.92.9311-19-4
2009-2010P. Rinne0.9112.5332-16-547-29-67th in West- Rd. 1
D. Ellis0.9092.6915-13-1
Islanders1997-1998W. Flaherty0.9261.994-4-3-30-41-1110th in East
T. Salo0.9062.6423-29-5
E. Fichaud0.9052.973-8-3-
2008-2009Y. Danis0.912.8610-17-326-47-915th in East
J. MacDonald0.9013.3714-26-6
Rangers2007-2008H. Lundqvist0.9122.2337-24-1042-27-135th in East- Rd. 2
S. Valiquette0.9162.195-3-3-
Senators2000-2001P. Lalime0.9142.3536-19-548-21-9-32nd in East- Rd. 1
J. Hurme0.9042.512-5-4-
Flyers2000-2001R. Cechmanek0.9212.0135-15-643-25-11-24th in East- Rd. 1
B. Boucher0.8763.278-12-5-
2001-2002R. Cechmanek0.9212.0524-13-642-27-10-32nd in East- Rd. 2
B. Boucher0.9052.4118-16-4
2002-2003R. Cechmanek0.9251.8333-15-1045-20-13-44th in East- Rd. 2
R. Esche0.9072.212-9-3-
Sharks2001-2002E. Nabokov0.9182.2937-24-544-27-8-33rd in West- Rd. 2
M. Kiprusouff0.9152.487-6-3-
2002-2003E. Nabokov0.9062.7119-28-828-37-9-814th in West
M. Kiprusoff0.8793.255-14-0
V. Toskala0.9272.354-3-1-
2011-2012A. Niemi0.9142.4234-22-943-29-107th in West- Rd. 1
T. Greiss0.9152.39-7-1-
Leafs2011-2012J. Reimer0.93.114-14-435-37-1013th in East
J. Gustavsson0.9022.9217-17-4
Capitals2010-2011M. Neuvirth0.9142.4527-12-4-48-23-111st in East- Rd. 2
S. Varlamov0.9242.2311-9-5-
B. Holtby0.9341.7910-2-2-

Other than the Islanders and 2005-2006 Kings, along with a jury still out on Toronto, San Jose, and possibly Washington, all of the teams emerged with a bonafide number one for some period of time. From Tim Thomas and Jonathon Quick, to Patrick Lalime, Henrik Lundqvist and Evgeny Nabokov, these are just some of the goalies that emerged from young duos to become successful goalies in this league.

Further to the point, not all of these goalies were exactly dripping in pedigree and upside when they first began here. Tim Thomas was basically taking one last kick at the can after failing to stick in the NHL and going off to Europe during his first go-around, Lundqvist was a 7th round pick who worked his way to New York (sound familiar?), Quick, after quickly showing he was too good for the AHL, actually staved off a guy in Jonathon Bernier, who the Kings had drafted to be their guy in the first round.

Goaltending is by far the hardest position to predict, especially when it comes to drafting kids to be your starter five years down the road. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

That’s partly an endorsement on Luongo, but that’s also partly an endorsement on Reimer and Scrivens. Everybody knows Luongo is, at the very least, an above average goalie on a contract with an absurd term. The pros and cons of Luongo have already been covered by the masses, so there’s nothing really to add anymore.

But what the Leafs currently have, however, aren’t exactly bums. This isn’t the Islanders running a tandem of Yan Danis and Joey MacDonald. Dave Nonis actually summed it up best when he said, “The only issue I would have with our goaltending would be experience. It’s not that they’re not quality goalies.”

James Reimer, albeit in a limited amount of games, showed he could play in the NHL at a high level in his 37 game stint during the 2010-2011 season. Before then, he was good in the AHL, ECHL and in the WHL even before that. He didn’t just come out of nowhere to play 37 good games, causing Toronto to make a rash decision. He’s been a good goalie at every level he’s played at, has good size for position, and an even better mentality.

Meanwhile, Ben Scrivens has been one of the best goalies in the AHL for the last season and a half. Prior to being signed by the Leafs, he absolutely dominated the college circuit. He too has shown flashes at the NHL level of being able to compete at a high level.

So what does this all mean? That if the Leafs run with Scrivens and Reimer, eventually one will step up and become a star? Not necessarily. However, in my estimation, it means enough to me that I’d be willing to run with the two in a 48 game season to see if one emerges as the clear front runner between the two. Clearly Scrivens has the advantage because he’s in midseason form, but Reimer is in the same boat as most NHL goalies at the moment (having not played actual games during the lockout), and hopefully, for his sake, he will be able to get his game going and subsequently create an environment in which both goalies challenge each other for starts nightly.

James Reimer ($1.8M) and Ben Scrivens (612k) are both under contract for next year at extremely cheap deals for goalies. If both play well, the Leafs can just keep both again and go from there. If only one plays well, they can easily cut bait with the other and look to bring in a more experienced guy to support the one who wins the gig (Backstrom, Thomas, Theodore and Garon are all UFAs and solid goalies). And if they both struggle? I’m sure Luongo will still be available. Nobody else seems to want him anyway.

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  • honesthockey

    I’ll put together a little composition for my buddy Leafs_17. In the meantime it looks like it’s piling up that a few would not trade a 1 year NHLer nor a player who’s never played a game for the amazing PK.

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  • Leafs_17

    i think he’ll be good to but it would be a sideways move at this point

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  • keon

    NHLwiki ‏@NHLwiki
    #NHL #AHL – #Habs affiliate Hamilton #Bulldogs have released defenseman Mike Commodore, making him a #UFA.

    hahaha, fucking hate the guy

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    QUICK!!!!.. Nobody sign him!!!

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  • Whalz

    like i said, you know alot……..just sayin sometimes you come off arrogant at times,,,,,,i do enjoy your comments,,,

    cheers

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  • http://www.hockey-nerd.com Cameron

    They’re not playing them to get experience.  Where are Paajarvi and Hartikainen.  Where are all their defenders?  The only young players they have are also conveniently 1st overall picks.  You want a model that exposes players before they’re ready and ruins their affordable ELC years?  Ironically, their best player by a country mile was a late 1st rounder who was given 2-3 years after his draft to develop. 
    -
    Rebuilding is not about throwing young players to the wolves. 

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  • 4evrblue

    What comes back?

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  • Leafs_17

    lol never said he was amazing, just cause you hate the guy doesn’t mean u get to make stuff up

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  • keon

    James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
    Last night’s Leafs-Sabres game was “the highest average audience in Sportsnet history for its NHL regional broadcasts.”

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    I kind of think there really is no position of weakness. 

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  • mcloki

    I just added Percy because I think he’s the only Leaf draft pick we havent traded away today.

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  • Whalz

    2nd rd pick? i have to say kuly looks like hes struggling with the puck again,,,i think he is more of a 3rd liner than a secondary scoring winger on the 2nd line,,,,,

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  • honesthockey

    No problem. It’s coming together.

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  • 4evrblue

    Throwing them to the wolves = NYI model

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  • http://www.hockey-nerd.com Cameron

    I believe that MacArthur will be the first to be traded from the forwards, and that Gunnarsson is the first to go on the back-end. 

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  • Leafs_17

    well what do u do with a player you own the rights to but don’t have a contract with?

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  • Leafs_17

    i bet it is

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  • mcloki

    1.1 mil from what I heard.

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  • Pent_House

    Both situations would be beautiful. Both players need to go asap. 

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  • keon

    I got MacArthur and Franson in my pool

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    Trade him. There would be a lineup for a guy like that. Lets start with Detroit

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  • http://www.hockey-nerd.com Cameron

    Edmonton, too.  I think Gagner probably could have been a special player if Edmonton hadn’t ruined him.  Hall and RNH have both been exposed to a massively increased chance of recurring injuries playing before they were physically ready. 

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  • Leafs_17

    well that’s exactly what i said 

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  • Shotgun Charlie

    Yes but it is not a position of weakness ;)

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  • Whalz

    correct me if im wrong but did not MPS not play 1 1/2 yrs in edm before spending the last 2 yrs in the ahl?

    hall, eberle, schultz, gagner, rnh, yak………………seems that all these 1st rd picks went straight to the OILERS (shultz wouldnt have been in ahl if lockout didnt happen)

    thats alot of players that werent exposed|!!!!

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