On Scoring Chances and other things

473

So I wanted to try and bridge the many events of the Leafs off-season into a giant post – unfortunately, after I get one of the topics off my chest, I am probably going to wing this (sorry Alec). I haven’t had the time to really break down my own thoughts because my summer has been all about being as lazy as I could possibly be – I’m a little surprised that I haven’t gone a day without taking a shower yet. So I hope everyone is enjoying their summer, getting sun, and trying out new beer.

Scoring Chances, Being a Douchebag, and Circle Jerkin’

At the end of the Leafs season, there were some questions about the path management would take to improve the possession weakness that had plagued the organization all season long. By any metric available to the public, the Leafs were soundly out-shot, out-possessed – this is indisputable by shots taken, shots attempted, and in the recorded cases, puck possession time.

In perhaps one of the greatest hockey interviews ever by our own Alec Brownscombe, Leafs assistant coach Greg Cronin declared that he did not believe that the team was out-possessed at all. Skepticism aside, it did give the fan-base some clue of what the team tracked as far possession was concerned – scoring chances. I took a quick look at Cam Charron’s scoring chance work throughout the season, but couldn’t find anything beyond 36 games. But at the 36 game mark, the Leafs did actually out-chance their opponents 474-469. Edit: I erred on my interpretation of these numbers — the original included special teams. The actual numbers available to us are 392 against and 355 for on even-strength. However, this isn’t the chasm inferred via shots total against. But it does leave me wondering what Cam’s final scoring chance counter was.

The Leafs out-chancing the opposition doesn’t necessarily mean anything. But it does give credence that the coaching staff actually knows what they want out of their line-up, how to get it, and what they are tracking. Oddly enough, the narrative that Carlyle and Co. don’t have a clue what they are doing come from the lowest denominator of an internet arm-chair general manager from that other place. You might get a good look here and wonder why SkinnyPPPhish has difficulties understanding that Ben Scrivens’ save percentage was well below the league average from 10 and 20 feet out while improving as the shots were pushed out. This was repeatedly pointed out, but I guess this is a last resort to draw attention to less circle-jerkin’ in a comment section and more open-mindedness about the devil in the details.

Dur hur.

And by the way, James Reimer was above the league average for save percentage in the 10 and 20 feet distances, which kind of busts the myth the goals given up were a little high. In fact, if you consider the shots given up with Reimer in net in the 10 and 20 feet area of the ice, he was slightly below the league average of roughly 6.974 shots per game – he took 6.94 whereas Scrivens took 5.5 per game and gave up 20 goals. So the evidence clearly points to Scrivens being less than stellar with handling scoring chances while Reimer was significantly above league average.

Now, I wanted to actually find out what exactly the scoring chances were against Reimer and Scrivens. Thanks to Greg Sinclair, I went to check www.somekindofninja.com to check out the scoring chance data we have available. As some of you know, the blogging community has explored the scoring chance data by using a home-plate area of the ice just in front of the net. Sinclair’s site has added the home-plate area search feature to our benefit:

James Reimer: 34 goals, 262 shots: .870%

Ben Scrivens: 25 goals, 128 shots: .805%

At this point, I think we can quickly bust whatever point SkinnyPPPhish was trying to make with his super fancy stats, pie charts and tables, general douchebaggery, and move on with our lives. Scriven’s scoring chance performance at even strength was abysmal – his performance is likely why the Leafs went ahead to acquire Jonathan Bernier (as well as insurance against a Reimer injury). While it’s not entirely fair to throw the Leafs’ short-comings at one player’s feet, Scrivens did have a rough season.

If a skeptic wants my data, I can provide the excel spreadsheet via email – just tweet or DM me on Twitter and I’ll fire off the attachment.

All told, I am going to undertake a project on my own to track scoring chances this coming season. Just for the Leafs and their opponents – I’m going to also try and locate who was on the ice at the time of the scoring chance and see where it takes me. Here’s a great refresher on the definition of a scoring chance.

I will get into more details once I have it mapped out for the season.

Miscellaneous

The re-signing of Tyler Bozak is extremely questionable to me. On one hand, it is so goddamn tiring to have mediocre centre options on the first line. I want a bona-fide number one centre who can dish the puck, shoot the puck, and make life a living hell for opponents with Kessel and van Reimsdyk flying down the wing playing shotgun. Bozak is nothing close to creative or even a good possession player – but he does defend with good effort and the face-offs do have some value to the line. I do hope that he can continue refining and expanding his game, but he’s going to have to be a little more selfish about shooting when he has the opportunity to.

Bozak’s contract is listed at 5-years / $22,000,000. On the surface, it’s terrible. Long-term, I don’t anticipate an issue. James Mirte did some conservative research on the rising cap. While the numbers are low, it’s entirely possible that within a few years, Bozak’s contract would fall into the middle or lower-tiers of a second line centre – perhaps even a third-liner. Whatever the future may be, I think it’s safe to say that it’s not the horrid contract some have purported it to be.

Conversely, the Clarkson signing is extremely intriguing and very worrying. The Leafs were already dealing with a bevy of talent on the wing, but adding Clarkson to the mix only makes them even more versatile. The Leafs can bring a speed game, a skill game, or a physical game. And it’s nice to have a player who can play hockey and throw down with some fists.

However, 7-years / $36,500,000 for a power-forward who will soon be on the downswing of his production is just too much. There’s some hope that he can sustain some sort of productivity in the later stages of his contract, but it appears to be a three or four year investment. My big hope is that Clarkson brings the possession game that many on social media have demanded – at the very least, the Leafs might not win a game next year, but at least their Corsi and Fenwicks are positive and we can all pat ourselves on each other’s backs and say, “We did It, guys! We have positive Corsi!”

For the record, I am really pleased with Carl Gunnarsson’s re-signing and the contract. A very underrated player and I hope his hip issues are behind him. As for Paul Ranger, whatever personal issues have plagued him in the last four years, I hope he’s ready and committed to helping shore up the team’s defense.

The Leafs have some three remaining RFAs to re-sign. Nazem Kadri, Cody Franson, and Mark Fraser are the three. I’m actually not that concerned about Nonis and Co.’s ability to re-sign all three since I anticipate that J.M. Liles will be traded anyway – but if Franson or Kadri are traded, all bets are off. My guess is that Fraser will be awarded less than 1M, Franson 3.1M, and Kadri 3.5M – all will be given a bridge contract.

I have a lot of faith in Kadri’s abilities and I hope that his ceiling comes sooner rather than later – the team needs his skill on the first line and I hope he’s up to the task.

More stuff coming later – someone will add links to the post. I’m off for a week. I will try and get more content up when I get back. Enjoy your weekend!

Links:

Lupul misses the Canadian Men’s Olympic hockey try-out — aims to improve

  • mORRganRielly

    Post links if you got them.  Make it easy for whoever has time to edit them into the post.

  • WendelGilmour

    Good read, mORRgan, thanks. I still don’t understand the folks who mock Cronin’s comments. Obvious to me possession that creates chances is far more valuable than simple possession time.
    Also neat stats on Reimer, and Scrivens.

    • mORRganRielly

      WendelGilmour No problem.  Agree with you.  For clarification, all the data I have is even-strength only.

  • mORRganRielly

    TheCanucksnaphook Don’t think I’ve complained.  Tried to keep it as simple as possible — not entirely happy with the signings, but I think anyone’s welcome to that kind of opinion.  I believe the main criticism for those complaining is that it is all they do.

    • mORRganRielly

      TheCanucksnaphook mORRganRielly I think I was just offering details with Gunnarsson and Ranger — just context.  As for Clarkson, would you agree that his contract is a little too long?  I think it’s 3, maybe 4, years too long.

    • mORRganRielly

      TheCanucksnaphook mORRganRielly Sure, it’s great to have someone who wants to be here, but there’s also a responsibility to be careful about the risks.  Clarkson’s power game IS a risk.  A totally legitimate concern.  Great now, not so much down the road most likely.

    • MLHS_Luke

      TheCanucksnaphook mORRganRielly Your headed into Shift Disturber and my territory (Huron County).  Behave yourself…

    • MLHS_Luke

      TheCanucksnaphook mORRganRielly ffs, *you’re..

  • MaxwellHowe

    TheCanucksnaphook if you have the right mix of players with the right chemistry playing at their peak at the right time, the sky is the limit.   This team is capable of excelling.  Not much more we can ask.  I wish the Leafs could use their financial power to attract this or that superstar, but given the salary cap, what can they do?  Not like the Leafs have traded away a number 1 centre or top tier dman in the last few years.  Mgt. has done what it can – put together a team which is very competitive and, IMHO, exciting to watch.

  • WendelGilmour

    Nice little piece on Lups. I thought he had a good chance, but probably too mich time missed:
    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/25/maple-leafs-joffrey-lupul-misses-out-on-olympic-dream

    • Burtonboy

      WendelGilmour Lupul – Kadri – Clarkson. I’d say he has a good chance to turn some heads this fall leading up to the Olympics . As long as he stays healthy that line could be absolute magic

      • WendelGilmour

        Agreed, Bboy. Our Top 6 could be be deadly. I just hope RC gets a good feel as to which line is clicking each night and plays them accordingly, Burns was awesome at that. If that line is effective as it should be, Lups may get consideration later.

        • Burtonboy

          WendelGilmour The thing about Carlyle is he’s likely to switch up lines with different personal at any point before or during a game. Look at how he constantly switched around his personnel during the Boston series . Might not be a bad Idea to look at things for the perspective of having a top six that’s interchangeable at any given moment. It sure as hell gave Julian fits during that series

        • WendelGilmour

          For sure, I loved what RC was doing keeping Boston guessing and hope he does this regularly. I agree and I do look at our Top 6 as  interchangeable. Lots of flexibility and firepower.

      • mcloki

        Boy that line looks deadly. And should draw its fair share of penalties. COS Coe on September.

    • mORRganRielly

      WendelGilmour Added!

      • WendelGilmour

        Cheers.

    • WendelGilmour

      He and Naz seem to mesh really well, I think they’ll both flourish. Clarkson will also free-up some room, and crash the net. I expect this line to be very effective.

      • WendelGilmour

        Yeah, very promising. I believe last year was a glimpse of where Naz can get. I’m looking forward to see what he can do playing consistently with better players, against better players. My money says his pts/gm actually improves. I am heartened by the fact many msm are saying he’ll regress, given the same ones thought he wouldn’t make the Leafs last year. Looking at you Mirtle, Brady, Farwell, and Lange.

    • MaxwellHowe

      TheCanucksnaphook WendelGilmour This commonly held notion that he is injury prone is a little unfair.  Several years ago he had a serious back injury that has not recurred.  He had a freak blood infection.  His arm was broken by Phaneuf’s slapshot – not sure there are any superhumans in the league that might have shrugged that off.  He has been unlucky, but I fail to see that he is any more likely than any other player to get hurt.

      • MLHS_Luke

        MaxwellHowe He is totally injury prone.  It’s not his fault (it’s not like he’s defective), but he is prone to injury.

      • WendelGilmour

        Oh, I agree. I was just referring to games missed last year may have cost him an invite. I didn’t mean to insinuate I think he is injury prone.

      • MaxwellHowe

        MLHS_Luke MaxwellHowe I don’t even know what that means though.  He is unlucky?  Unless he has osteoprosis, I fail to see how he is any more liable to injury than anyone else.  If it is only a historical comment, fine.  But i got hit on the shoulder by bird crap today.  I don’t expect my family and buddies to stand clear from now on because I am bird crapped upon prone.

      • MaxwellHowe

        Yaknowwhat MaxwellHowe MLHS_Luke Hmm..gave me something to think about.  That hit that gave him a concussion occured on the half boards while he tried to clear the puck on the backhand.  Maybe playing on the off wing does make him vulnerable to hits.  But still  -the Phaneuf slapshot and blood infection are just bad luck – every forward who gains a position in the NHL is driving for the net when the D tees one up.

  • mcloki

    It is generational. People think that by being cynical and distrusting they have a more realistic view of the world. And therefore better. It’s bullshit and just serves to prop up their ego. Nobody just sits down and appreciates what they have. It’s always bemoan the things we don’t have. Sad really.

  • Mind Bomb

    Good morning Folks !

    • WendelGilmour

      Morning, MB.

    • mORRganRielly

      Mind Bomb Morning bud!

      • mcloki

        Morning Morgan. Sorry I missed you were on.

      • Mind Bomb

        mORRganRielly Mind Bomb Hahha Morrgan This is great word usage
        * General douchebaggery * 
        I sometime’s on-line Game, this will be a new character name for me 
        Love it

        • mcloki

          I’m sure you’ll be a 5 Star General in No time lol.

        • mORRganRielly

          Mind Bomb mORRganRielly Hahaha, what game?

        • Mind Bomb

          mcloki Hahha

        • Mind Bomb

          mORRganRielly Mind Bomb  Playing Neverwinter ATM, my name on there is 
          Bob Loblaw :) 
          I stared way back with Everquest

        • mORRganRielly

          Mind Bomb mORRganRielly Ooooo, you’re into MMOs.  I’m more of the RPG / FPS type!

        • Mind Bomb

          mORRganRielly Mind Bomb  I play em all, when the wife and daughter permit me some free time lol

    • mcloki

      Morning MB. BB, Canuck. Wendel, maxwell. Looks like the regulars are here. Beautiful summers day and first thing we think of is hockey. I thank God we live in such a great country.

      • Mind Bomb

        mcloki  Amen ! And the lord said, let there be Puck !

      • WendelGilmour

        Morning, mc.

      • Burtonboy

        mcloki Hah ain’t so beautiful here . Fuck its raining hard lol

        • Mind Bomb

          Burtonboy mcloki  Sounds like a Nap day BB :)

        • Burtonboy

          Mind Bomb Burtonboy mcloki Nice day to talk hockey

        • Mind Bomb

          Burtonboy Mind Bomb mcloki  Only if its Positive Talk :) 

          Lol

      • MaxwellHowe

        mcloki Mornin’.

  • Optimistic Otis

    Actually, I loved that “wingin’ it” read, well done. I tend to agree with just about everything you said and, you could ask my wife, that rarely happens!?! 
    We’re better then last year but we’ll have to wait and see by how much. Certainly agree on the Liles movement and see the return being a 2nd or 3rd round pick. In addition and to genuinely shore up defense, I would have hoped for a $2-$2.5M stay at home signing (Hainsey, Murray maybe). I like the Ranger deal and he could be a cheaper solution but, respectfully, there is obvious risk there. With the addition of Bernier, Bolland and Clarkson our team defensive game got better but we appear to be starting with a very similar defensive staff as last year. Frankly, I hope Nonis isn’t done cuz I would have hoped for one more piece in D.

    • WendelGilmour

      I’d also like to see us upgrade the D, but imo adding some forwards who are better defensively should be a big help. Our forwards were a big part of us getting hemmed-in last year. A better forecheck will also be a big improvement.

    • mORRganRielly

      Optimistic Otis Cheers!  I think we’re settled with the defense right now — just need to get the two guys re-signed and see if Rielly shines at camp.

      • WendelGilmour

        Sounds like the Leafs are genuinely concerned sending Reilly back to junior may not be in their best interests. I almost wonder if he isn’t pencilled-in. It would seem odd to me they make those comments publicly, then send him back.

        • Burtonboy

          WendelGilmour Gonna be a massive battle in camp at the d position . I would only pencil in Dion ,Gunnar :) , Gardiner and Franson .

        • WendelGilmour

          I should add PH watches more Marlies tha most, and didn’t think Rielly is ready based on his AHL play. Perhaps he is one of those that plays best against better competition?

        • WendelGilmour

          Haha, smooth on the Gunnar comment 😉 You should have noticed I have refrained from commenting on him. No need to beat a dead horse.

        • Dan39

          Yeah, you just watch him in the A – the guy is clearly not ready to play defense in the NHL. He can do the offense, passing and askating, he CANNOT win battles in the corner in the NHL. He’s not ready. He goes back to junior after 9 games – that’s a lock in my mind.

        • WendelGilmour

          Maybe, but kinda odd the Leafs would wonder aloud whether that would hinder his development.

        • Zep2

          Dan39 That was my impress of Rielly regarding puck battles in his own zone. Hes big and strong enough to get it done though

      • Optimistic Otis

        mORRganRielly Optimistic Otis
        Ya, I would agree that’s what it looks like, meaning our D staff probably looks like this:
        Dion – Gunnar
        Franson – Fraser
        Gardiner – Ranger/Holzer
        Not a whole lot different then last year. And, man, I was really hoping for one more experienced defensive stud!

        • MaxwellHowe

          Optimistic Otis mORRganRielly I can’t see Carlyle separating Gardiner and Franson, assuming the latter is signed. Only if Gardiner plays so well he is promoted to the top pairing with Phanuef

      • darthNihilus

        mORRganRielly Optimistic Otis I read somewhere they don’t want to burn a year of his ELC by bringing him in to sit on the bench. Unless he is a superstar looks for him in the juniors.

  • MLHS_Luke

    mORRganRielly Why don’t you tell us how you really feel (about PPP)? ; p

    • mORRganRielly

      MLHS_Luke Heh.  Most are good guys.  Some great writers there.  Just one particular douche canoe.  Nothing personal against any of them though.  By the way, nice to meet you!  I know there were other writers, looks like most are coming for the summer!

  • mORRganRielly

    Hopefully someone clicks on the Dur Hur link and gets the same raucous laugh I got out of it.

    • Mind Bomb

      mORRganRielly  Lol Love the smoke and Fire at the end

    • Cloud09

      mORRganRielly I enjoyed it.

  • WendelGilmour

    We have a 1C.

    • rustynail

      WendelGilmour exactly Naz

      • WendelGilmour

        Yep.

    • Greg Fenton

      WendelGilmour No, they have an relatively inexperienced 2nd or 3rd line center (depending if you want to go by ice-time or depth chart position), who maybe, hopefully, one day will become a legit #1 center.

      • WendelGilmour

        Who was 21st in NHL scoring, 11th amongst centers, with very little PP time, and with whom every Leaf played better with. He’s legit.

      • Greg Fenton

        WendelGilmour Maybe. Stepan had identical points/stats, I wouldn’t call him a legit #1 center. And points aren’t always the end all, be all. Moulson and Semin both had 44 points as well while Kopitar and Nash had 42, I would take the later 2 players any day. And 44 points this year doesn’t mean Kadri will have least 75 points next year, remember how Kulemin followed up his 30 goal season? 
        I should also point out, a legit #1 center (as I use the term) is a center who would be a #1 center on any team. Kadri may very well end up as the Leafs #1 center but not be a legit #1 center.  
        I think Kadri will ultimately be a 1.5 line player, a really good 2nd line center or an ok 1st line guy. A guy like Pavelski, not Thornton.

      • jimmyg65

        Greg Fenton WendelGilmour So everybody not named Toews and Crosby does not qualify as a #1 centre because they wouldn’t win that job on Chicago and Pittsburgh. Which means we can look forward to ten more years of complaining about not having a true #1 centre. Grrrreat…..

      • LePetomane

        jimmyg65 Greg Fenton WendelGilmour would help if they drafted some centers
        it is gassy at the Casbah

      • Greg Fenton

        jimmyg65 Greg Fenton WendelGilmour I would say everyone not on that level isn’t a legit #1 center. 
        That doesn;t mean every other center is bad, just not a legit #1.
        And yes, I think its likely the Leafs won’t have a legit #1 guy until/unless they draft one early.

  • Burtonboy

    Yaknowwhat I don’t find the article negative . Its just an opinion peice. Listen to Mirtle ,Bruce Arthur or read PPP if you want negative . This article is tame by comparison

    • Burtonboy

      Yaknowwhat Burtonboy Just giving you my opinion …just like Morgan does in the article. lol All a matter of interpretation I guess. I just didn’t find this at all negative compared to the massive douchebags on twitter or in the MSM

    • Greg Fenton

      Burtonboy Yaknowwhat I didn’t either. For me, for me, in order for something to be “negative” or “positive” it has to be that way in the face of/regardless of fact, evidence, stats etc…. Something like this article which takes just takes the facts and the writer gives his take, its not positive or negative, its just someones take.

  • Bernier_The_Boats

    Yaknowwhat Here here!!!

  • Dan39

    This might be one of the best hockey articles I’ve read.
    Debunks what intuitively I knew that the advanced stats possession numbers are at odds with the more-predictive scoring chance data – the season wasn’t a fluke and the coaching staff knows what it’s doing after all. Thank God. 
    I think the shooting distance stuff is very interesting – didn’t realize that there was quite such a gap between Scrivs and Reims. Makes you wonder what Berns can do!
    The only criticism is the uncertainty on Ranger. Poulin (?) said he was the best or close to the best defenseman in the AHL all year – what more do you guys want for evidence this guy can play?

    • Cameron19

      Dan39 Poulin also signed Brett Lebda….

      • MaxwellHowe

        Cameron19 Dan39 Who the Leafs traded for Franson (and Lombardi)?  Maybe he’s just two steps ahead of everyone?

    • Zep2

      Dan39 Ranger definitely comes with a few ? . But he’s already played in a top4 role for a pretty good team already.
      Were better of with him in the lineup on opening day than Mike Kotska or Korbinian Holzer.

      • Dink

        Zep2 Dan39 oh for sure

        • Dink

          Zep2 Dan39 think you will see Ranger moved around until the perfect defense partner is found, might be with Phaneuf

        • MaxwellHowe

          @Dink Zep2 Dan39 Pairing Phaneuf with dmen straight out of the AHL seems to be Carlyle’s mode d’operandi

        • MaxwellHowe

          Zep2 Dan39 modus operandi

        • Dan39

          Ranger is not Kostka or Holzer; he can actually play defense. And he can play top 4 in the NHL.

        • Dan39

          I would not be at all surprised to see Ranger become the top pair partner for Phanuef. He’s more responsible and can make the first pass better than Gunnar to not get hemmed in as happened to the Leafs all season.

        • MaxwellHowe

          Dan39 I have no reason to doubt your opinion.  We shall all know in time.

        • Dan39

          I could always be wrong but the guys that are all stars in the A that don’t do well in the N are normally guys whose game doesn’t ‘translate’ well. They rely on fancy moves and individual play that makes them stand out and look awesome but stuff that doesn’t work in the N. The reason I’m confident on Ranger is he’s just solid – no flash.

        • MaxwellHowe

          Dan39 I had only meant to imply that Carlyle will put guys from the AHL straight into the top pairing.  Ranger could find himself there opening day, no doubt about it.

        • Dan39

          Getting paired with Phaneuf was the kiss of death last year. If Ranger plays with Fraser as most people predict, he will do well and the media will like him.

        • Burtonboy

          Dan39 Does Ranger play right d ? I don’t remember seeing him play that side during the AHL season

        • Dink

          Burtonboy Dan39 think he is left Pnaneuf would have to be right

        • rustynail

          @Dink Burtonboy Dan39 he was talking about playing with Fraser cause Fraser cannot play RD

        • Dan39

          I don’t know what it says on the roster or whatever but I remember seeing him play both sides. He played right when with Reilly.

        • Burtonboy

          Dan39 PP if I remember correctly

        • B_Leaf

          Hey guys…mornin!
          I watched Ranger a lot last year…his game translates very well to the NHL game. He can likely play anywhere in the line-up. I had always thought he could be a great pair for Phaneuf for a lot of reasons. One is he can share the physical load. Ranger is strong and fairly big. Ranger has a decent first pass, not perfect but better than Dion’s. Ranger can handle the puck better than Dion. The stability and reliability from Ranger should really help Dion stabalize. Ranger isn’t mistake free but when he gets settled into a groove he is pretty consistent. He doesn’t lose battles due to a lack of strength.

        • Dan39

          Thank you, my thoughts exactly – excellent post.
          Only downside for Ranger is if he gets paired with Phaneuf, he probably gets blamed for the inevitable breakdowns they experience.

        • mcloki

          MaxwellHowe Zep2 Dan39 Where was Ranger drfted by TB?

        • Dan39

          180 or so…

        • mcloki

          Dan39 183. Thanks. I have google I should be able to answer these questions myself.

        • Dan39

          Doesn’t tell the story though. He was considered solid top 4 with upside in Tampa.

        • Dan39

          Like Gunnar. And I think he was drafted somewhere around the 6th round too and he “turned out” with development

    • MJamesD

      Dan39http://somekindofninja.com/ shows that the Maple Leafs were the only team to get brutally out-possessed and be successful this season. So I wouldn’t dump on “advanced stats” just yet. (seriously, why is using simple addition considered advanced stats?)

      • Dan39

        Yeah, but it seems the Leafs have a system that ensures they will be brutally outpossesed so it’s by design to an extent and obviously they expect this to be successful which it was by the standard they use. If it repeats next year – will you guys just admit they are right?

  • Zep2

    Optimistic Otis . Morning everyone. Our defensive squad is much improved over last year. Gunnarson should come back healthy, Carlyle now has confidence in Franson , and Ranger is an upgrade on both Kostka and Holzer.

  • Dink

    Once we get Franson, Kadri and Fraser signed (yes it can be done) I feel this team is really good. Maybe add a usable forward along the way, via free agent, trade or farm system.
    Only problem I have is, I felt this same way about the Blue Jays last winter…
    Yikes !!

    • MaxwellHowe

      @Dink Don’t get a new media narrative or meme started, for god’s sake

      • Dink

        MaxwellHowe lol

        • MaxwellHowe

          @Dink MaxwellHowe Leafs start off poorly and we’ll hear the jays comparisons all thru Fall.

        • Zep2

          MaxwellHowe Leiweke didnt help matters by talking about parade routes

    • Dan39

      Jays was more like Leafs under pre-salary cap era. Trade all the young potential stars, sign a bunch of current/declining stars for top dollar then flame out.
      News Leafs in the opposite and I like it.

  • mORRganRielly

    Had to make a minor edit.  I had the wrong scoring chance numbers.  While they were accurate, they also included special team numbers — so that needed to be corrected.  It is reflected in the update.  Totals were 392 against to 355 for after 48 games — however, this doesn’t weaken premise.  taylor_wright pointed out the error on Super Shot search, but Cam had 356 scoring chances tracked for the Leafs after 36 games.  So while the chances *might* be in the opponents favour, it’s not that big of a difference.

    • MJamesD

      mORRganRielly taylor_wright 
      so the entire premise of this post might be incorrect. Great.

      • dlb eh

        @MJamesD mORRganRielly taylor_wright 
        i have a feeling you’re from “the other site” here to support your buddy.
        that’s fine.  makes no difference to me.  perspective is perspective.

  • Cloud09

    Yaknowwhat So let me get this straight……………… because Morgan doesn’t like Bozak this article is negative?…………. You’re drinking too much kool-aid if you think Bozak is close to being an acceptable #1C………… Don’t worry half way through the season the tone will change and Bozak will once again be shown as the miscast centre we all know he is……… 5yrs and 22M is just the icing on the Bozak nightmare cake………. Now THAT was negative.

    • rustynail

      Cloud09 Yaknowwhat 1/2 way through the season Naz will be the #!! center so who cares

      • Cloud09

        rustynail Yaknowwhat Can’t see it happening Rusty. Tyler and Phil are BEST FRIENDS and can’t be separated, I’m sure this is what’s holding up the Kessel extension 😉

      • Burtonboy

        rustynail Personally I think we no longer have a # 1 line . We have a top six. :)

      • rustynail

        Cloud09 rustynail Yaknowwhat whohas Phil been playing golf with ? :)))))

      • rustynail

        Cloud09 rustynail Yaknowwhat spoiling my argument eh. :) of course we do

      • Cloud09

        Burtonboy rustynail Top 5 IMO

      • rustynail

        Cloud09 Burtonboy rustynail that a shot at Clarkson?

      • Burtonboy

        Cloud09 Burtonboy rustynail I have a little more faith in Bozak then you do …… mind you  I said a little lol

      • Cloud09

        rustynail Burtonboy I like Clarkson, I think he will look great on Kadri’s wing.

      • Cloud09

        Burtonboy Cloud09 rustynail I’ll take Bozak for what he is, a 3rd line centre. I have a HUGE issue playing him anywhere near our top 6, the guy can’t produce points playing with arguably one of the most talented offensive players in the NHL. Give him the big draws, play him on the PK, just stay away from Phil and JVR.

      • B_Leaf

        Cloud09 Burtonboy rustynail

        I think people here under value Bozak. The fact is the guy played 1C by position and TOI last year for one of the best teams in the NHL. The last two years the three wingers he has had have had career years…maybe you argue that they did this despite Bozak, but everyone who has ever played hockey knows it doesn’t work like that.Bozak as a center is the glue guy on the ice when he is out there. He has to gauge the strengths and weaknesses of his linemates and the competition and generally be what the team needs at that time. Defensively he is really good, he works really hard in the d zone and he is pretty skilled there, reliable…this allows his wingers to counter attack etc.Bozak generally cheats a little on the D side so it is great that our 2C Kadri has enormous offensive upside (playing pretty good defensively too). Kadri can play more PP time.The leafs have a good overall group at center…I still need to see Bollands contribution and fit but it could be really good.

      • NotInsane

        B_Leaf Cloud09 Burtonboy rustynail 
        I agree.  Bozak is undervalued because people here want either Sundin or Gilmour playing 1C.  Sorry, they’re not available.

  • Dink

    I think it is time to try drastic measures on shoot-outs (guess we aren’t getting rid of them)
    1. Gardiner
    2. Kadri
    3. Reimer
    hahahaha

    • Dink

      make a mockery of the damn thing, maybe they will get rid of it

  • Burtonboy

    http://blog.mapleleafs.com/kessel-takes-part-in-charity-ping-pong-event/

    http://blog.mapleleafs.com/kessel-takes-part-in-charity-ping-pong-event/

    • dlb eh

      Burtonboy 
      haha, i thought that said Kelly Clarkson, and i was shaking my head at why you would post that

  • Mattmark

    “The Leafs have been Sisyphus’s rock to many men…”[Bruce Arthur, National Post]
    Dead-on phrase.  Captures the matter perfectly.

    http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/07/25/maple-leafs-gm-dave-nonis-has-yet-to-prove-himself-despite-early-extension/

    • B_Leaf

      Mattmark 
      This was in many ways a good article. I dont agree with his mild negativity on Bozak, and I do think RC has a system that does beat the advanced stats. Anybody who watched the Leafs at all could discern that the chances they had all year were considerably better than the chances they gave up…that is simple math. 
      But I think the key to the article is that Nonis hasn’t proven too much with his off-season moves. Last year he and his management team made several key decisions that I am not sure Burke would have done, including demoting dead wood passengers, and promoting guys like Fraser, Franson, Kadri, Frattin, and Orr. These moves changed the team significantly…so lets give credit there. But the off-season moves are still unproven, and I would be lying if there weren’t concerns. We have had lost some guys who I really liked. We have gained a couple guys I like.
      Personally I think Reimer is our starter. I don’t think Bernier is that great of an upgrade over Scrivens…but I liked Scrivens and feel he is better overall than what he showed in small amounts last year. Not hanging on to Frattin was a serious mistake…I would just love to have his scoring and physicality penciled into our third line LW at a low cap hit…a guy who can move up if an injury happens, a guy who adds to good team speed, a guy whose strong with lethal hands.
      Grabs had a poor year but if he were ever able to bounce back…he can be so good. I understand this move if the management so no room to bounce back. 
      Anyway time will tell how these moves work…i have my doubts but hope for the best…if Nonis made good moves I will be the first to say. Certainly getting Clarkson and Ranger will help.

      • Mattmark

        B_Leaf Mattmark There’s no doubt we’ll regret Frattin’s loss if Bernier flops.  He’d better be spectacular.  (If he is, though, we won’t have a worry in the world in net.  Reimer would then be one of the league’s more reliable backups.)

        • NotInsane

          Mattmark B_Leaf 
          I won’t miss Frattin’s inconsistency anymore than I miss Victor Stalberg’s playoff disappearing act

        • Mattmark

          NotInsane Mattmark B_Leaf Frattin, like Lupul, has had injury woes.  But when he’s healthy he adds a lot.

        • MaxwellHowe

          Mattmark B_Leaf With Reimer going into RFA year, if Bernier is “spectacular”, the Leafs may as well deal Optimus Reim away.  Stay away from prolonged goalie controversies

        • Dink

          NotInsane Mattmark B_Leaf I still like Stalberg

        • NotInsane

          @Dink NotInsane Mattmark B_Leaf 
          Three assists and no goals in 19 playoff games until he was a healthy scratch… what’s not to miss?

        • Dink

          NotInsane Mattmark B_Leaf he has no future there   but has a cup

      • Komas Taberle

        B_Leaf Mattmark Bernier is a much better goalie than Reimer, he has a better glove, he goes post to post much better, he has better reflexes and better puck control and is in position never down and out on almost every shot, he will surprise many but not me, he is going to be a star!

        • Cameron19

          Komas Taberle B_Leaf Mattmark lol

        • Mattmark

          Komas Taberle B_Leaf Mattmark Nonis’s future may be in his (hopefully capable) hands.

    • NotInsane

      Mattmark 
      Another business move that has nothing to do with accomplishments.  Burke received a 5 yr contract to start in T.O.  Nonis is getting the same/similar.   Why are people so stupid? 
       Sisyphus my balls.  Leafs are on the up and up as an organization.

      • Mattmark

        NotInsane Mattmark Got to admit that trying to push Leafs ‘up’ has broken quite a few GMs over the past several decades, though.

        • NotInsane

          Mattmark NotInsane 
          No, I won’t admit that.  It takes time to build a deep, winning franchise in the post-lockout world.   JFJ was the last of the desperate quick-fix GMs and that was five years ago.

        • Mattmark

          NotInsane Mattmark Have you ever actually read the myth of Sisyphus?  It’s clear you’re failing to grasp the author’s point.  He isn’t denying it takes time to build a winning franchise, just reminding us that there have been a lot of false starts since 1967… which is undeniably true.

        • Dink

          Mattmark NotInsane my brain hurts

        • Mattmark

          @Dink Mattmark NotInsane Take two Cup wins and call me in the morning.  😉

        • NotInsane

          Mattmark NotInsane 
          What?  Sisyphus rolled the boulder up the hill again and again: moral is futility.  Sucess is IMPOSSIBLE in that myth.
          I’m tired of reporters reminding me of the past, Mattmark.  Its tired and old.  The Habs haven’t won anything since the Blue Jays but I don’t read endless articles about their organizational failures.

        • MJamesD

          NotInsane Mattmark 
          He was successful at never getting fired. Wish I had that job security.

  • wendelsfist

    That supershot tool is great tool.  How come I have never seen it before.   
    This write up is good evidence on how well Carlyle’s collapsing strategy designed to protect the “home plate” works.  Even more hard proof that the leafs are limiting shot quality just like Cronin mentioned.  And it never dawned on me until reading your article that the leafs collapsing system was by design to both limit opposition “shot quality” and to compensate for Scrivens weaker goaltending close in.  Good stuff.

  • Mattmark

    [Re; Clarkson:]  “However, 7-years / $36,500,000 for a power-forward who will soon be on the downswing of his production is just too much.”
    Yeah, of course.  Clarkson reaped the reward of his status as the top UFA available… any GM who managed to snag him was only going to be able to do so by paying too much.  The point is we got him… he’ll be skating for us against other teams that would have been just as willing to spend the money but struck out.

    • NotInsane

      Mattmark 
      Fans don’t seem to understand business… or prefer to turn a blind eye.  A Bozak costs 4.2m and a Clarkson costs 5.25m (or more).  UFA Supply = UFA Demand.  I don’t like year 7 and neither does Nonis but he held his nose and did it.

  • Mattmark

    -Keon- If every shot that goalies faced was from there, none of them would have a 900+ save percentage.  NHL goalies have fantastic reflexes but they aren’t supermen–they can’t defy the laws of physics.

    • Mattmark

      -Keon- Just trying to put the numbers in some kind of reasonable context.  Fortunately, not all shots goalies face are from ‘home plate.’  😉

    • wendelsfist

      Mattmark -Keon- Cherry prefer to covere the points and Carlyle prefer to covered the home plate area.  I wonder what goalies prefer or if it varies goalie by goalie?

    • Dink

      Mattmark -Keon- here comes that fuzzy math again

    • Mattmark

      wendelsfist Mattmark -Keon- Could be… I don’t think there’s a ‘one style fits all’ system that’s suitable for every goalie or every group of athletes.

    • NotInsane

      @Dink Mattmark -Keon- 
      Very fuzzy math.  Scoring chance save percentage is boring.  Is a shot from the point a scoring opportunity?  What if it seems harmless and deflects in?  borrrrr-ing

  • Jmessih

    Perfect comment….thx someone had to do it :)
    I can’t wait to see this line up play next year!!

  • B_Leaf

    -Keon- 
    We all know Rask is good…He was amazing against the Leafs…that toe save on the one time Lupul chance in game seven OT was clutch.

  • wendelsfist

    -Keon- What is up with Quick – I hope he fails in NJ

    • Dink

      wendelsfist -Keon- huh

      • wendelsfist

        @Dink wendelsfist -Keon- I was thinking QUICK = Schneider.  Neurons misfired somehow

  • MaxwellHowe

    -Keon- Man, if Price doesn’t get his shit together, the Habs are gonna be severely trashed this season.

  • dlb eh

    lol, i was already snickering, but had to take a time out at
    Scoring Chances, Being a Douchebag, and Circle Jerkin’

  • Jimmy Keating

    Really good post from Gus @ McKeens

    http://www.mckeenshockey.com/nhl-blog/trio-shooting/

    • wendelsfist

      Jimmy Keating Nice but what about the goal scoring machine in Kessel.   
      From a scoring perspective The the tam is looking promising and balanced with 3 “net” presence forwards (JVR/Clarkson/Kulemin though he can launch a shot) and two snipers (Kessel and Lupul).  The centers are what they are.

      • wendelsfist

        Jimmy Keating team…lol.  so many mistakes this morning.

    • B_Leaf

      Jimmy Keating 
      That was a really cool post. What I like about that is that the numbers and math really just confirmed what my eyes had already told me from just watching the games. 
      I think JVR has benefited from Carlyle and so should Clarkson. RC loves/insists to win the dirty ice around home plate.

  • dlb eh

    -Keon- 
    interesting.  this sort of suggests that Cronin was accurate when he said they were comfortable with their possession quality versus the opposition.
    i mean, if our goalies make the routine saves and don’t have a relatively high save percentage when the shots are from quality scoring range…and we still win plenty of games…seems our team game is pretty good.
    i said the biggest reason our team improved last year was due to Reimer playing well.  this doesn’t mean he stole games, it simply means he did not let in the one soft goal each game he did when he was returning from his injury.  before that, under Wilson of course, and once he was back to full health…he has been steady if not spectacular, and when our goalies give us that baseline performance we win.
    imagine how good we’ll be with a hot goalie who steals some games.  i swear.  this team is poised to take a giant leap very soon.  we might already have the players to do it, we’ll have to see how they progress (many are so young and approaching their breakout season or their prime).
    oh, and one more thing.  stats.

    • NotInsane

      -Keon- 
      PK is huge.  You can’t win without a good PK (See Predators ’13, Nashville).

    • dlb eh

      -Keon- 
      i would agree…BUT, lots of the goals scored against us on the PK were of the soft variety (i.e. goal line from the corner over the shoulder, are you kidding me?)
      Reimer makes the routine saves.  makes the PK better.
      but the PK definately improved with the work Fraser and McClemment did.  it could be just as steady this year with the new guys contributing..

    • dlb eh

      -Keon- 
      what i meant, of course….was that lots of goals scored before last year, when the PK was bad, were soft ones.   they made our PK look worse than it was, which still needed to improve.

  • MaxwellHowe

    Bleacher Report informed me yesterday that the Islanders have better odds of winning the cup than the Leafs.  So I guess thats it for Bleacher Report.  Shoulda figured that out long ago.

    • wendelsfist

      MaxwellHowe Old man Nabby is their goalie again.  He better remain healthy

      • MaxwellHowe

        wendelsfist MaxwellHowe For the Islanders to win the Stanley Cup, he better become 10 years younger and learn to play goal and man the point at the same time.

        • wendelsfist

          MaxwellHowe wendelsfist i’m a bit surprised that Thomas didn’t consider joining them.  He is still looking for work

        • ErikGruber

          wendelsfist MaxwellHowe How the hell do they have a better chance when they only have 3 NHL defenseman on their roster according to capgeek.com. Man……..

        • wendelsfist

          ErikGruber wendelsfist MaxwellHowe Snow is going to be dumpster diving again at the wiaver deadline

    • B_Leaf

      MaxwellHowe 
      Islanders are on the rise too.

      • NotInsane

        B_Leaf MaxwellHowe 
        My uncle from BC (Canucks fan) loves them.  He saw them for the first time in the playoffs (after VAN was eliminated) and thought they were the most entertaining he’s seen in years.

        • Cameron19

          NotInsane B_Leaf MaxwellHowe Yea, I know, there is a very unfair stigma about them.  When they beat us 7-4 in our first meeting this year and basically lit us up, everyone was outraged.  But they score at will against a lot of very good teams some nights.  They’ve had multiple 30 goal scorers for a few years now, and people just refuse to acknowledge it, it seems.

        • Dink

          NotInsane B_Leaf MaxwellHowe Be a good topic, teams on the rise, teams falling

        • MaxwellHowe

          @Dink NotInsane B_Leaf MaxwellHowe My picks for rising are the Stars, the Wild, the Sens and the Hurricanes.  Falling are the Rangers, Devils (even further), Canucks and Jets (again, even further).

        • Dink

          MaxwellHowe NotInsane B_Leaf  I think Bruins and Pens are falling

        • Cameron19

          MaxwellHowe NotInsane B_Leaf 

          Agree about the risers.  I don’t think the Rangers will slide.  I think Richards will rebound and show everyone that his slide was somewhat exaggerated.  Nash and Lundqvist should be pretty motivated with the Olympics on the horizon. The Jets are pretty screwed moving from the easiest division in the league to one that boasts the Blackhawks, Blues and the rising Wild and Stars, to say nothing of Nashville.  Colorado is young, but totally stacked offensively. 

          Interesting thought on the Canucks – a year from now they could be without Henrik, Daniel and Roberto, having already lost Schneider.

        • MaxwellHowe

          Cameron19 MaxwellHowe NotInsane B_Leaf I think this is the year the Sedins begin to slow down ,and the entire team begins to unwind.  While the handling of the goalie situation was grotesque, landing Horvat was much needed.  This team is on an unoffical rebuild.

        • Cameron19

          MaxwellHowe Cameron19 NotInsane B_Leaf If they struggle this year, is there any chance they deal the Sedins at the deadline, following the Olympics?  Could make for a speedy rebuild.

        • rustynail

          MaxwellHowe Cameron19 NotInsane B_Leaf Torts is gonna whip them into shape

        • MaxwellHowe

          Cameron19 MaxwellHowe NotInsane B_Leaf 
          Could be a very significant addition for a team on the cusp.  Imagine the Ducks or the Sens adding those two for a playoff drive.  That could gain the Canucks plenty in return.

        • Cameron19

          MaxwellHowe Cameron19 NotInsane B_Leaf The problem with that deal is that they really can’t expect to hit a total homerun on it.  They almost have to trade them as if they’re one player, because who can afford to add two stars at the same time?

        • MaxwellHowe

          Cameron19 MaxwellHowe NotInsane B_Leaf There is that complication. And what in recent history makes you think the GM of the Canucks will have unreasonable expectations? :)

      • Cameron19

        B_Leaf MaxwellHowe Yep, but I think they got worse in the off-season.

  • dlb eh

    -Keon- 
    uh oh.  you’re not done yet.  is Reimer up there?  i’ll have a reponse to support that new information if you do.  it’s stats.  they can support anything i want.
    eagerly awaiting… haha

  • Mattmark

    Yaknowwhat I think most people would agree with your analysis, apart from the somewhat contentious claim that Nonis’s moves haven’t cost us ‘one quality prospect’ (Frattin certainly qualifies… maybe you meant he was beyond the ‘prospect’ stage… and the 2nd round pick we surrendered could also prove important).
    Nonis hasn’t visibly made any spectacular mistakes… but he hasn’t dazzled, either.  In contrast, look how nimbly Ottawa reacted to the defection of Alfredsson.  Sens’ acquisition of Ryan proves that he was available for the right price.  If we’re going to credit Nonis with addressing identifiable weaknesses, what about that gaping 1C void that hasn’t been patched up yet and that Ryan certainly would have gone a long way toward filling?

    • NotInsane

      Mattmark Yaknowwhat 
      TSN reported the Ryan deal was in the works for a long time and was not related to Alfredsson.
      Ryan is a winger.  Not sure how he could possibly have fit into the Maple leafs let alone played center.  And he cost a 1st rnd pick.

      • Mattmark

        NotInsane Mattmark Yaknowwhat Sorry, looks like I picked a poor example.  The main point is unaffected, though.  Nonis hasn’t yet made what anyone could call a bold, franchise redefining move.  And there’s an obvious issue at centre that remains unaddressed.  The Bozak contract suggests Nonis thinks it can’t be adequately addressed–not in a way everyone would immediately recognize as satisfactory.

    • Cameron19

      Mattmark Yaknowwhat Yea, Ryan is a winger.  I would agree though, I’d like to see him add a star player still.  I understand that it’s unlikely to be a center, but I’d target a star winger like Ryan if I could.  I’m sure another guy like that will be available soon.  I really think if we can’t have insane center depth, that we need to continue to enhance our strength on the wings – make that our identity. 

      Bobby Ryan is a risky acquisition because everyone and their cat knows he wants to sign with Philly as a UFA. My pick for a similar trade would be Evander Kane. Perfectly fits the model we’re trying to work with here – the combination of speed AND toughness; which we still haven’t really addressed, even with the addition of Clarkson.

      • Mattmark

        Cameron19 Mattmark Yaknowwhat Sorry, I thought Ryan was a centre.  What do you think it would take to pry Kane loose?  If nothing else, the Ryan trade proves that such things can still be done.
        BTW, have you given up on the idea of acquiring Duchene since his new deal?  Has the deal made Stastny more available?

      • Cameron19

        Mattmark Cameron19 Yaknowwhat I dunno. I think they’ll let this season do the talking.  I think Sakic was quite sincere about wanting a Duchene/Mackinnon one-two punch down the middle though.  So either Stastny has to be happy as a 3rd line C on what will likely be a very good team, or he moves on.

  • SkinnyPPPhish

    My post didn’t say anything about Reimer or Scrivens’ sv% as a function of distance. It was about the team as a whole. Feel free to stop putting your stupid words in my mouth.

    • darthNihilus

      SkinnyPPPhish who invited this stinkyfish here? I thought you PPP perverts didn’t like it here -yet you constantly visit. What’s up with that? Why do you constantly try to make your point to a bunch of people you consider to have lower intellect than you? Must be that really small penis insecurity…

      • SkinnyPPPhish

        darthNihilus SkinnyPPPhish Such wit you possess. MLHS deserves better commentors.

  • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

    https://twitter.com/SNHockeyCentralhttps://twitter.com/SNHockeyCentral/status/360766989179957250
    Nathan Gerbe signs one-year, two-way contract with Hurricanes. $550,000 on the NHL level or $150,000 on AHL level ($250,000 guaranteed)

    • MaxwellHowe

      ingy56 Hope he does well – always gotta cheer for the little guy.

      • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

        MaxwellHowe ingy56 Rutherford sure likes to give players a chance. Hope it works out for both of them.

  • Ensign

    Morning fellas

    • mcloki

      Ensign Hey stranger how ya doing?

      • Ensign

        Good. Busy with the new job. Was on here yesterday and was very surprised at how some people were way over valuing Fraser

        • mcloki

          Ensign That’s thi site. They over value the AHLer’s want to trade all the real Hockey Stars. Same old, Same old.

        • Ensign

          Ya his type is a dime a dozen in the league. I’m pumped over the ranger signing though

        • mcloki

          Ensign I am too. But he’s a 56 D for me. He may surprise but let them play a game or 2 before we start handling out medals.

        • Dink

          mcloki Ensign I saw a movie once with 56D’s…or was it 73’s?
          hmmm

        • Ensign

          No medal, but I’m excited he’s taking a run with the leafs. He has the potential to be better that a 5/6

        • dlb eh

          Ensign 
          over value in terms of contract or contribution to the D?
          after seeing what Orr and McLaren signed for, factoring in years of service, and then considering ice time and shot blocking and protecting the goal crease…
          Fraser is likely asking for more than a million OR a more long term contract.  i could see him settling for 900k.  but he’s at the age and bubble to not want a show me contract…he wants stability probably.  expecially after the reality of taking that puck to the head.
          but i dunno.

        • rustynail

          Ensign yup the upside is what is exciting

    • Ensign

      Haha nope alive and well

      • Ensign

        You wouldn’t get much anyway. What’s new here

      • Ze_theLeafsFan

        Ensign you are back. That’s new :)

    • Mind Bomb

      Ensign Dude, its Dude, whats Happening !

  • Doorman

    moRRganReily;  lamas;  oh My;  I draw the line with bingo Babes.  You and Keon have a major problem!!!

    Lol

    • wendelsfist

      -Keon- Now I thought it was a goat.

  • wendelsfist

    Is Fraser going to arbitration – July 30th so the data is approaching?

    • Dink

      wendelsfist so far he is

      • Dink

        wendelsfist I predict he signs before for 8-9 K

        • Cameron19

          @Dink wendelsfist Why would he take less than Ranger?

        • wendelsfist

          @Dink wendelsfist  I thought the sticking point was 1 way vs 2 way

        • Dink

          Cameron19 wendelsfist to remain a leaf

        • Cameron19

          @Dink Cameron19 wendelsfist Maybe.  I think he’ll get 1 or 1.1 million though.  I wouldn’t be surprised if it was less, that’s just my prediction.  It seems kinda ridiculous to me to give Ranger 1 million for playing in the AHL, and Fraser 900K for playing 16 minutes a night in the NHL.

        • rustynail

          Cameron19 wendelsfist cause he is worth less than Ranger

        • Dink

          Cameron19 wendelsfist

          it’s a cruel world but fair

        • Dan39

          Fraser is an RFA and Ranger was a UFA – that alone makes him likely to get less.
          The other importasnt point is that, though riskier, Ranger projects to be significantly bette because he was better in the AHL (and in the NHL before his break).
          My view: we got Ranger below-market because of his personal desire to stay close to home. And I’m thrilled with and appreciative of the player for that.

      • wendelsfist

        @Dink wendelsfist There is going to be nothing to talk about till then unfortunately.  Maybe Nonis will extend Carlyle for his good success and work this season. At least we can discuss that

  • SkinnyPPPhish

    So let me get this straight.
    In your opinion, a +5 differential was enough for you to decree that the Leafs coaching staff know what they’re doing and also justification to call my article a piece of shit..
    But in reality when you remove special teams and only look at 5v5 (which my article did) the actual differential is -37, but “hey it’s not a chasm or anything” and yet you leave in the parts calling me full of it?
    Further, my article never once mentioned Reimer or Scrivens so I don’t know what you’re getting on about there.

    • MJamesD

      SkinnyPPPhish 
      I agree. Sadly. But I do Agree.

    • Dink

      SkinnyPPPhish never read your article

      • MJamesD

        @Dink SkinnyPPPhish 
        It is linked in the article above

      • MJamesD

        @Dink SkinnyPPPhish
        http://www.pensionplanpuppets.com/2013/6/20/4448474/carlyle-coaching-myths-part-5-shot-distance-redux-now-with-100-more/in/3839671
        here infact

        • Dink

          @MJamesD SkinnyPPPhish math makes me fart

        • MJamesD

          @Dink SkinnyPPPhish
          It isn’t math in that post. All you have to do is be able to identify if one number is larger than another.

        • Dink

          @MJamesD SkinnyPPPhish I am screwed then

        • dnvrtsng

          @MJamesD SkinnyPPPhish Apparently a challenging task for some

        • Dink

          dnvrtsng SkinnyPPPhish sigh

        • wendelsfist

          @Dink dnvrtsng SkinnyPPPhish I find pictures help understand these kind of problems.  http://i.stack.imgur.com/u5HhK.png

        • Dink

          wendelsfist dnvrtsng SkinnyPPPhish hahahahaha

    • darthNihilus

      SkinnyPPPhish based on your statistical excellence can you tell me who will win the cup next year and who the top 20 players will be (in order)? I’d like to make some money and since you stat guys are so convinced about yourselves I might as well trust you. I’d like to cash in on your ability to predict who will be good next year and who will win the cup so please post your predictions and list here. However, if you are wrong….

      • SkinnyPPPhish

        darthNihilus SkinnyPPPhish I’m sorry, did I say I know everything? Or did I merely write an article showing where the Leafs shots against came from? Again, I don’t know what it is with you guys at MLHS wanting to put words into other people’s mouths, but nobody is saying what you seem to believe they are.

  • rustynail

    https://twitter.com/OMGFactshttps://twitter.com/OMGFacts/status/360769613065232385
    Researchers have found that the worse your sense of smell is, the more likely you are to be a psychopath.

    • Dink

      rustynail damn I smell too

      • dlb eh

        @Dink rustynail 
        your feet smell and your nose runs.  you’re a mess, bud

    • dlb eh

      rustynail 
      of all my senses, smell is the only one i’d say is beyond average.  so then what does that mean?  if i was a psychopath at least i’d know what i am.  now what?

    • Komas Taberle

      rustynail That explains why, when I have a bad cold and get stuffed up, i feel like killing someone.

  • Dink

    I must be the only one that sees Nonis as doing a good job.
    Now if Leafs don’t make playoffs this year, I just know everyone will blame him.
    Doesn’t matter that they’re in a tough division or possible injuries or bad play …
    It will be Nonis fault, right?

    • MJamesD

      @Dink  No, still not enough reason to blame Nonis. Yet

    • jimmyg65

      @Dink Hey, I like almost everything Nonis has done. Every team always has two or three players making a little too much money and two or three making too little (on ELCs, for instance). Given how many good young D we have coming up from AHL and CHL, along with some sold 2nd and 3rd line forwards, I think he’s maintaining that balance.

      • Dink

        jimmyg65 nobody saw the Bernier, Bolland or Ranger signings coming…for that I applaud him..
        you stand still and everyone passes you

      • MJamesD

        jimmyg65 
        The biggest problem I have is why didn’t he let Bozak walk and make Kadri the 1C? I don’t see TML challenging for the Cup next year anyways, why not see what the kid can do with Kessel for a season?

        • Dink

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 Kadri can be #1 C, just got to earn it

        • MJamesD

          @Dink jimmyg65 
          Comparing his stats last year to Bozak’s.
          He already did.

        • Dink

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 I would agree except he ran out of steam at end of season

        • MJamesD

          @Dink jimmyg65 
          He played with offensive dynamo’s like Colton Orr. Bozak got 1PP time and almost exclusively played with Kessel. Kadri toasted him.

        • jimmyg65

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 Maybe he will let Kadri take the 1C job if Kadri’s ready (which I think he will be). Then Bozak is your #2 centre who does extra duty on PK and important defensive zone faceoffs. It’s not the ideal situation, but I think he did the best with what was available. As the cap rises, Bozak’s contract will look very reasonable. I think there’s value also in how well liked Bozak is on the team, though I may be wrong. 
          As for buying out Grabo, I have to think something was going on behind the scenes. He and Carlyle obviously hated each other for one thing. I don’t think that is Nonis’s fault–he didn’t give Grabo that crazy contract…

        • Dink

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 I think Don Cherry’s kiss gave him ojida

        • MJamesD

          jimmyg65 
          I just feel like we burned our already weak position, C, and wasted a lot of cap flexibility for the coming years with that Bozak deal/Grabo buyout. I mean, Derek Roy was available for a 1 year deal, something similar would have allowed TML to figure out just how good Kadri will be in the future. I just don’t like how it all went down.

        • wendelsfist

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 When is the next CBA?  Plenty of opportunities for more buyouts then.  Personally I hope Bozak replaces Bolland at 3C who can slot to winger in a year or two.   That would mean Kadri as a #1 and gauthier or someone else as a 2C.

        • jimmyg65

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 I don’t disagree, but what I’m hoping is that Bozak will show that he’s worth that contract because he’s no longer asked to be the #1 guy. I’ve always thought he brings a lot to the team, just not in that position.  I can’t tell you how many times I’ve yelled at the TV when Bozak is on the #1 PP, etc. I’m hoping my vocal chords get a rest this year…

        • MJamesD

          wendelsfist jimmyg65 
          8 years. No guarantees there will be more buyouts then. If that is truly what TML management is banking on, then burn them all.

        • Greg Fenton

          @MJamesD jimmyg65 They probably don’t see him as ready to fill that role.

    • wendelsfist

      @Dink Extending Nonis was smart by Lieweke in one sense.  Nonis is not going to worry about how the leafs perform in the next two years when his contract was to expire.  Rather he can work on building a solid foundation and let the team success come that instead of trading prospects and picks to win now.

      • LePetomane

        wendelsfist yup

      • Greg Fenton

        wendelsfist A contract extention won’t take the pressure off Nonis, he still has to make the playoffs next year and the year after. Contracts don’t give GM’s and coachs job security. They could fire Nonis tomorrow if they want. 
        Nonis still has to get the Leafs into the playoffs next year, he isn’t going to take one or more seasons to build and develop talent etc… The foundation Nonis is going to build on is already in the franchise.

        • dlb eh

          Greg Fenton wendelsfist 
          if the Leafs miss the playoffs next year i believe Nonis will still get an opportunity to recover.  if the organization believes stability is fundamental in becoming a winner, it means there has to be room for failure, or stumbling, along the way up.
          imagine how Leafs fans feel about that comment.

        • Greg Fenton

          dlb eh Greg Fenton wendelsfist I agree that you have to loser in order to win, but the Leafs are past that point. They are too good, too old, to far removed from losing and too expensive (baring any huge injuries or something) to still be in that place. This isn’t a developing, still building a foundation team, at least it isn’t positioned as one. 
          That isn’t to say they must win the cup or Nonis will be fired, but if they take a step back, he’ll start feeling some heat at least. Thats why he lost his job in Vancouver, he couldn’t keep his team int he playoffs.

        • dlb eh

          Greg Fenton dlb eh wendelsfist 
          yeah, he’ll feel the heat.  but the contract suggests to me that Liew likes Nonis enough to give him the opportunity.  if Liew is worth his salt he’ll also ignore the past (hmmm, seems believeable) and let stability rule the day in favour of knee-jerk reaction to some ups and downs.
          i don’t think we’re arguing.  does that make this less fun?

        • Greg Fenton

          dlb eh Greg Fenton wendelsfist Not at all
          How long was it from the time Wilson got his extension, got the “Burke likes him enough to give him the opportunity” before they fired him? 
          As I said, the Leafs aren’t a team in a development stage right now. The guys they are built around are in their primes and its the time (the next 3-4 seasons) were they need to take advantage and win and do something. 
          The statement that Nonis now doesn’t have to worry about performance I think is just…..wrong. I think he still has to very much worry about performance and maintaining the success the Leafs had this year.

  • SkinnyPPPhish

    Further, my article was written before Greg updated his site with the Scoring Chance option so you can’t exactly fault me for not using it. In fact it was feedback from my article that got Greg to update his site because we wanted a more accurate depiction of the home plate area rather than simply relying on shot distance.

    • newkb

      Some people way overvalue their existence on this planet…

  • Dink

    I made one remark to Mirtle yesterday and he blocked me

    • MJamesD

      @Dink 
      Links or it didn’t happen.

    • rustynail

      @Dink must have been a doozy

      • wendelsfist

        rustynail And didn’t arencibia or some jay take down his twitter account because of fans trolling him?  It won’t be long before Bozak follows suit.

    • mirtle

      @Dink The only person I’ve blocked in the last couple of weeks called me a douche directly. Yes, this will get you blocked, even if it is one remark.

  • dlb eh

    Clarkson’s contract doesn’t worry me in the least.  There’s no reason to think he’s on his downswing either.  Plenty of power forwards produce in their mid-30’s and that’s a long way off for David still.
    He might not be a 30 goal scorer, but he’s probably going to score 20 goals every year for the next half dozen for us while providing a lot of other things.  He’s hell to play against, for one.
    JVR, Clarkson, Kessel and Lupul are going to be 4 highly paid wingers, i get that.  Kulemin could get back to being an offensive threat and be in that mix, but if he doesn’t then he’ll have to be paid like a checking winger or he’ll be the guy moved out.  It’s Kuli’s CAP hit we have to manage, not the other 4.  If Kuli becomes that two-way power forward he showed a glimpse of, then he’ll cost more, and then it’s a good problem to have.
    CAP will go up, inevitably.  We have young players coming up who will fill out the lineup behind some quality young and mid-career veterans.  Clarkson’s contract won’t be an issue, at all.

    • MJamesD

      dlb eh 
      MacArthur is a 20 goal scorer too, and a crap load cheaper, and younger. There were so many better/cheaper options available than a guy who peaked at 46 points.

      • Komas Taberle

        @MJamesD dlb eh MacArthur is a good player but Clarkson brings another dimension to his game, he is intimidating, he hits to hurt, goes to the net with abandon and drops the gloves with anyone who tries to stop him, he is a much more formidable opponent than MacArthur ever dreams of being.

        • Dan39

          His fighting prowess is somewhat over-rated. I think, realistically, he’s maybe a 2-5 fight a year guy for us. I don’t think we’ve replaced what we lost with a part-year contribution from Brown in that department.

        • Knights2Leafs

          Komas Taberle
          I would have been happy keeping MacA but I can live with Clarkson.  On the left side JVR and Lupul were obviously ahead of Clarke.  On the right side we have Phil and now Clarkson who is a true RW.
          Could MacA have played RW on the 2nd line?  Don’t know and I doubt it, but it does kind of make sense to have Clarkson who is not only a true RW but brings more physical presence etc.

      • dlb eh

        @MJamesD dlb eh 
        MacArthur signed with OTT.  and i’m not in the least concerned about playing against him.  Clarkson will work the corner, the boards on our breakout AND down low in the offensive zone, the front of the net.
        he’ll also keep pukes away from our skilled guys, so kids like Colbourne and Kadri can focus more on their game than looking over their shoulder.
        i liked Mac, but i didn’t love him and i won’t miss him.
        i still remember him NOT laying out to block the shot from Chara in game 7.  it could have turned out to be the difference, and he chose self-preservation.  i don’t blame him completely, but it also wasn’t very endearing.

      • Ratzshite

        @MJamesD dlb eh MacArthur sucked the big one last year, i forgot he was even on the team. He did play a little better in the playoffs but there is a reason two teams have let him walk.

    • Greg Fenton

      dlb eh You might be right. But there is the possiblity that it could be a problem. 
      Clarkson might “get old fast”. Some of those prospects you’re counting on might be busts or fail to live up too or exceed expictations, meaning they have to spend more on more expensive proven players. The cap may not go up as much as you are expecting etc… 
      I don’t think signing Clarkson was a bad risk to take, but I certainly wouldn’t proclaim that his contract won’t be an issue, it could very well be.

      • rustynail

        Greg Fenton dlb eh and the team bus might crash

        • Greg Fenton

          rustynail Greg Fenton dlb eh It could, but what does that have to do with Clarkson’s contract? 
          The post made basically outlined a best case scenario regarding Clarkson, the cap and the Leafs prospects and said because of that, it isn’t a problem. Well, you can’t only look at the best case scenario and say that.

      • dlb eh

        Greg Fenton dlb eh 
        i could sit on the fence or i could tell you what i think, right?

        • Greg Fenton

          dlb eh Greg Fenton Sure, just like I can.
          I like the Clarkson signing, its a risk but a risk worth taking. You presented your opinion/what you think as fast – Clarkson is going to be good for the whole contract. A bunch of their prospects are going to make it. The cap will go up as the Leafs need it too etc… And none of that is a given. 
          The reality will probably be somewhere in between the best case and worst case scenario.

        • Knights2Leafs

          Greg Fenton
           Nonis at least did a good job with the bonuses front loaded each year.  Makes it easier to trade Clarkson at the back end of his contract which helps take away some of the risk.

        • Greg Fenton

          Knights2Leafs Greg Fenton As long as his play at the time is at a level that someone wants him, or another team has to dump some plaers/salary and are willing to take him in return. 
          If Clarkson at 34 is a 4 goal a year, 4th line player with a 5.25 million dollar cap hit, might be hard to find a taker. 
          I’m not saying it was a bad contract or they are in trouble or Nonis screwed up or anything like. I’m just saying people who see that contract as potentially a problem in the future aren’t being over negative or anything. It very well couldbe a contract we are regretting down the line.

      • Alec Brownscombe

        Greg Fenton dlb eh Hell yes it will be a problem, eventually. Nonis pretty much acknowledged this in a subtle way when he said he’s not worried about the later years of the contract. It’s the price of doing business in UFA. It’s something they’ll just have to deal with hopefully in a much more forgiving cap environment.

        • Greg Fenton

          Alec Brownscombe Greg Fenton dlb eh If I’m going to be fair and consistent in my point, I have to point out that it is also possible that Clarkson is like Shanahan (who had 40 goals when he was 36). If thats the case, the contract won’t be a problem at all. 
          I agree its the price of doing business with free agents and I have no problem with the signing, I like it. I’m just not a fan of these “it will not be a problem” or “it will be a problem” statements. Given a lot of the factors it could go either way with Clarkson and this contract (other contracts I think its fair to be more absolute about).

      • mcloki

        Greg Fenton dlb eh The cap is going to shoot up. Higher ticket prices, Combined with big revenue generating outdoor games., Plus new broadcast contracts that are going to stick it to the Canadian Networks. A resurgent Leaf and Monteal team will make sure of that. You’ll look back in 2016 and start saying that Lupul at 5.25 is a steal.

        • Greg Fenton

          mcloki Greg Fenton dlb eh Maybe, hopefully. You can think or hope it will, it might be a good bet but you have no idea if it will or not.

  • Dink

    Someone explain the 9-game rule (like Reilly would have)
    Does it have to be at start of season? once he is returned to juniors he can’t be recalled till their season is over?

    • Dink

      could he play 3 …sit 3…play 3 like that? 
      and why is it 9 games?

      • Dink

        oh

      • Jmessih

        Yes he could it only counts the 9 game he plays in. I’m sure 9 games represents a % of the sched that was deemed enough to represent a year of a contract.
        I believe it needs to start at the beginning of the season b/c they prob need to be on the begining of the season roster and it can last as long as they wont till the 9 game are up. mind you they can play something like 15 burn the first year of the deal and still be sent down that has happened in the past (Believe Buffalo did it with Grigoranko). Also if sent down the only way they can be called up are through an “emergency recall” which a believe has a limit of 3 games and requires some justification ( like you get injuries and your farm team is half across the country and that player is closer, Leafs did it with Kadri once vs San Jose)
        So I believe everything I said is mostly correct if not, people let us know :)

        • Dink

          Jmessih ty

        • Jmessih

          Np, hope it got you the answers you wanted. I looked back now and can see a lot of spelling mistakes and such may have been confusing lol

    • Dink

      I pass the questioning to Soupy Sales

  • Jmessih

    The Clarkson vs MacArthur debate is difficult b/c they are two very different players.
    But I can tell you that both playing at their best I’d take Clarkson on my team over MacArthur

    • Alec Brownscombe

      Jmessih I wrote about the debate in some depth here if you missed it http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2013/06/17/monday-morning-armchair-gm-clarkson-vs-macarthur/

      • Jmessih

        I’m not sure which way the article went (I dont remeber it fully) so I don’t know how you asked the questions and structured the bedate I’ll read it again now but jsut for a quick pop.
        Right now playing their best (might be hard to compare b/c you have prob seen a hell of a lot more of MacA than Clarkson but we know what they both bring) so playing at their best who would you want in game 1 of a playoff series?

        • ShotgunCharlie

          Jmessih I think Clarkson is another big body in front of the net we need. JVR on one line, Clarkson on the other.

        • Dan39

          Clarkson is way better at his best, wasn’t he on a goal per game pace at the start of the season or something crazy?

        • dlb eh

          ShotgunCharlie Jmessih 
          definately gives Carlyle more parts to tinker with

        • MJamesD

          Dan39 
          and then he really, really, really fizzled out

        • dlb eh

          @MJamesD Dan39 
          how many games did you watch him play?  i assume … almost none.  so, like most of us, you know nothing.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          Ah, the old “watching the games” accusation. I watched 15 Devils games this year. So probably 14 more than you did.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          My bad, it actually was 14 games I watched. I double counted somewhere in there.

        • dlb eh

          @MJamesD dlb eh Dan39 
          it’s not merely a “watch the game argument”.  it’s what did you see?
          you ONLY mentioned statistics, so what response do you think you deserve?
          if you watched 15 games, what did you see in Clarkson?  who else did you notice?  why did NJ not do as well this year as they did the year before?  what was the reason for their negative turn-around?
          i would love to know that you have some inkling of knowledge.  honestly.  give me a reason to care about your opinion.  here’s an opportunity.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39
          “then he really, really, really fizzled out”
          Yep, that comment is just drenched in statistics.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          Look, when Clarkson is scoring, he is ABSOLUTELY worth that contract. He doesn’t score very consistently in any way. He is fine defensively, puts up points appropriate for a 2-3 line tweener, but in no measurable or “intangibles” way is he worth the deal Nonis gave him, especially not for 7 years.

        • dlb eh

          @MJamesD dlb eh Dan39 
          every post you’ve made has been stats based.  you’re telling me you changed your tune for that one?  bullshit.
          so what you meant was, watching the Devils play 14 games this year, is that Clarkson “really, really, really fizzled out” means that he was more and more invisible as the year wore on.
          and that’s believeable?
          lol, so you watched 14 games and Clarkson, stats aside, was fizzling out at a big rate.
          you sure you want to maintain you were not talking about stats there?

        • dlb eh

          @MJamesD dlb eh Dan39 
          i remember when Chris Neil was up for free agency.  he would have been a great addition to any team, but when OTT re-signed him it was bad news for us.
          Neil doesn’t score a lot either, but he does get hte odd point.  but he is real effective when he’s on the ice, one way or another.
          as far as i’m concerned, when Clarkson scores it’s a bonus.  it’s everything else he does that excites me.  and knowing we got him on our team is a lot better than the alternative, because the opposition is already tough enough to beat.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          Yeah, we should never use stats to measure how good a player is. I’m sorry.
          Clarkson scored something like 5 goals over the last 20 games. (I looked it up a few days ago, don’t remember the link).
          I already said he is a good defensive player, no argument there.
          I just don’t see how a guy who has 1 30 goal season, and 1 40 point season is worth that kind of money, he isn’t a shutdown player with nice offensive upside, he is a tough 2nd-3rd line RW who is drastically overpaid.
          THAT is my argument.

        • dlb eh

          @MJamesD dlb eh Dan39 
          no one said never to use stats.
          but to say a guy isn’t worth ten bucks because he doesn’t score 10 points is dumb.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          yep. 10 bucks. that is where this discussion apparently went.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          I think you are missing the point I am attempting to communicate here. Clarkson>MacArthur? Yes. With that 7 year deal? No.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          That is literally the whole reason I don’t like the deal. 7 years.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh Dan39 
          Could have used that money on TML’s actual needs, centre and defense

    • dlb eh

      Jmessih 
      we can always judge different players on how they contribute to the team in the role they’re assigned.
      what was Mac?  a scorer?  a checker?  an energy guy?  he was a little of everything but not a whole lot of anything.

    • DWCMLHS

      You’ve gotta admit that 27 y.o. Mac at 3.25 x 2 is far better value than 29 y.o. Clarkson at 5.25 x 7, though. It’s not even close. Clarkson is a good player, but that contract is scary as fuck.

      • Xxxxxnew

        DWCMLHS Why does it scare you, as in what’s the worst case scenario you see happening.

        • DWCMLHS

          Worst case scenario? His age and physical style of play catches up to him, his production drops, and we end up burying him or buying him out a few years before his contract is done. We don’t have anymore CBOs.

        • Xxxxxnew

          DWCMLHS So you’re worried about buying him out in five years when he’s 34 and the cap is at $80 million?

        • The_Polish_Cannon

          Leafs needing to trade a player like franson because they backed themselves into the corner with the cap. That’s a bad scenario

      • Xxxxxnew

        DWCMLHS Mac turned 28 last April. There’s exactly one year difference in their age.

        • DWCMLHS

          Right. There’s no more edit function on here so I couldn’t fix it.

      • dlb eh

        DWCMLHS 
        i can’t agree with you on that at all.  paying Mac 3.25 for what he contributes is rediculous to me.  what does he do when he isn’t scoring?  bouncing off people?  turning pucks over at the blue line?  skating fast (when he feels like it) and almost “getting there”?
        Mac had his moments.  but you can’t judge the player by only his best moments while forgetting what the rest amounted to.
        Mac at 1.5 is reasonable.  he’s a 3rd line player when that third line is not counted on for checking.  he’s the 3rd best player on any line he’s on.  how is that good value at 3.25?
        he’ll do what all good x-Leafs do against us: score.  the rest of the year he’ll probably show up on the highlight reel a few times.  but so fucking what.

        • DWCMLHS

          Mac can be a 50ish point player on the 2nd line and 2nd PP unit. He scored 62 points in 10/11 (he wont repeat that), and scored at a 48-point pace in 11/12, when Kulemin dragged him and Grabo down offensively. Both in a 2nd-line scoring role. He’s a good 2nd-line playmaking winger, not a 3rd-liner. The Leafs’ depth at LW relegated him to the 3rd line last season (actually, he was all over the place, sometimes on the shut-down line, and even on the 4th line – which was dumb – a bit). He’s definitely a top-6 forward, though. If the Sens use him properly, he could easily be a 50-point player for them.

        • dlb eh

          DWCMLHS 
          i know a lot of guys who scored a lot…who were absolute studs in men’s league.  i hated playing with them, though, because the rest of us had to cover up their shit while they weren’t scoring.
          points can suck my dick.  players who put up points AND do other things are what i want.
          i liked Mac…but then we got better players.  3.25 is a lot for him.  but good for him getting that.  he does contribute in some ways when he’s not scoring, just not enough to miss him, or to fear playing against him.

        • MJamesD

          dlb eh DWCMLHS 
          Offensively, Clarkson is a fair bit worse than MacArthur, while he is better defensively, paying someone a 7 year contract because we can buy him out later, is poor asset management, especially when TML could really use that money to upgrade the defense or centre position.

  • dlb eh

    when a guy isn’t putting up points, how does he otherwsie contribute to the team’s success or failure?
    quantify that for me so i can compare it to my perspective of what constitutes a good hockey player and what makes up a good team.
    Dupuis was our best PK guy, don’t forget.  so happy to have had that argument with so many….seems like it was so long ago.  maybe for old times sake we could have it again?

    • ErikGruber

      dlb eh Dupuis was better than McClement?

      • Savo43

        ErikGruber dlb eh definitely not here he wasn’t lolllll.

      • dlb eh

        ErikGruber dlb eh 
        lol, a few years ago i seemed to be one of a few people here who could only shake their heads while everyone told me the stats proved beyond a shadow of a doubt, that Dupuis was vital to the team….because defensively, and especially on the PK, he was our most reliable player.
        i watched him play and chose to think differently.
        so…that was sarcasm.  but thanks for letting me relive the debate…i always enjoyed that one haha

        • ErikGruber

          dlb eh ErikGruber Oh on the PK he was good but when he went on offense it was countdown until he gives the puck away or takes a lame shot.

    • Xxxxxnew

      dlb eh Bob Gainey would do lousy on advanced stats. He had a fraction of the points recorded by his hig-flying teammates. But Soviet master coach Anatoli Tarasov once called Gainey the best hockey player in the world.

      • MJamesD

        Xxxxxnew dlb eh 
        Um, “advanced stats” have a thing called QoC, or Quality of Competition. It rewards players who have thankless defensive assignments, like McClement or Greg Campbell or Boyd Gordon to name a few. No one would ever say Gainey was a poor player, advanced stat community included.

    • Mind Bomb

      dlb eh  He brings the Beer DLB

  • http://stores.ebay.ca/UncleJakesCards?_rdc=1 unclejakescards

    https://twitter.com/DarrenDregerhttps://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/status/360799559561129986
    Franson trade speculation will heat up. Leafs would like to keep him, but $$ is too much. Prospect and draft pick fair return?
    uh-oh

    • Mind Bomb

      unclejakescards  Piss off Dreger !!!

      • MaxwellHowe

        Mind Bomb unclejakescards Yeah, the Leafs aren’t going to panic about this now.  Lotsa time to sort things out.

      • http://stores.ebay.ca/UncleJakesCards?_rdc=1 unclejakescards

        bet ya he askin for 5 mil per ……

        • Xxxxxnew

          unclejakescards After a decent 48 games.

    • dlb eh

      unclejakescards 
      there were a lot of us here thinking he or Gunnar would price themselves out of our future, even before Liles had to be factored in.
      prospect and a pick…that’s just leaving a hole on the right side.  it becomes really important that  at least one of Holzer, Granberg and Blacker step up sooner rather than later.
      maybe those Robidas ideas come back into play.  maybe a Smid – Franson swap or something like that, boody hell Franson.  you’re breaking your uncle’s heart.

      • dlb eh

        unclejakescards 
        i’m happy to see what Gunnar signed for btw
        i’m all over him when he’s playing top pair with Phaneuf but i still see him for what he is.  a reliable 2nd unit defensive player, and that salary is fair.

    • leafmealone

      unclejakescards negotiating tactic by MLSE

      • http://stores.ebay.ca/UncleJakesCards?_rdc=1 unclejakescards

        leafmealone unclejakescards ya, i know, happens every year , i just read it , came on here to post it ,stir shit up ……..

        • NotInsane

          unclejakescards leafmealone 
          Depends on the draft pick and the prospect.  
          Trading Franson now would be a high risk move.  He showed a lot of bounce to the ounce in the playoffs

    • darthNihilus

      unclejakescards yeah I hear they’re moving him to tampa for Stamkos and a draft pick

  • Xxxxxnew

    I find the fear over Clarkson’s age hilarious because Gary Roberts was a fan favourite and we brought him in when he was 34 and signed him to a four year contract. Fans were pissed when the Leafs lowballed him and he moved on to Florida.

    • MJamesD

      Xxxxxnew 
      Roberts’ career stats make Clarkson’s look like utter trash. Roberts’ best season saw him put up more goals than Clarkson’s best season had points. It is so totally a comparable situation.

      • dlb eh

        @MJamesD Xxxxxnew 
        different era as well, if you’re going to use stats don’t forget about perspective.  we’re not idiots here.
        of course Roberts was a great player.  point was, he had a career ending injury, came back and produced at a great rate.  his contribution to a team didn’t fall off just because he got older.  likewise, it’s stupid to think Clarkson will drop off because he’s almost 30, oohh.

        • darthNihilus

          dlb eh Xxxxxnew but but but my stats say guys after the age of 29 just suck …. (;-(