I’ve become known as a bit of a Kadri sympathizer in comment section debates on the Nazem Kadri contract negotiation. I’ll make this clear: I do not blame Dave Nonis and Claude Loiselle for the essence of what they’re trying to accomplish with the negotiation. Kadri’s situation is far from unique when it comes to high profile RFAs, both past (see below) and present (Stepan, Pietrangelo).
What bothers me is the media offensive against Kadri via various insiders and one in particular. It has been the player who so many fans have been quick to jump on and advise to “shut up.” I think that advice would be more apropos for the team than the player, based on what I’m seeing and hearing. Both of Kadri’s tweets have been on the defensive, and I do not believe Kadri is expecting a long term deal at the figures reported.
Consider these figures instead:
|Player||Contract AAV||Contract Length||Age||Production||Games||PPG||Date Signed||Cap Ceiling|
|Matt Duchene||$3.5 million||2 years||21||150 pts||219||0.68||June 23rd, 2012||$70.2 million|
|James Neal||$2.875 million||2 years||23||92 pts||155||0.59||Sept. 16th, 2010||$59.4 million|
|Logan Couture||$2.875 million||2 years||21||65 pts||104||0.63||August 26th, 2011||$70.2 million|
|Tyler Ennis||$2.812 million||2 years||21||83 pts||140||0.59||Sept. 15th, 2012||$70.2 million|
|Nazem Kadri||$2.9 million||2 years||22||63 pts||99||0.64||Sept. 10th, 2013||$64.2 million|
Both Couture and Duchene had their contracts extended after their first season of a two-year bridge deal, receiving long term deals worth $6 million AAV. This is the goal Kadri should be aiming for. In the interim, his numbers and sample size stack up closer to Couture and Ennis’ than Duchene’s. His sample size is the smallest of these six players. The team is working with a 9% reduction on the cap, as well.
Kadri’s camp probably wants something closer to Duchene’s bridge contract for a few reasons. 1) He may feel his opportunity to build a bigger body of work was delayed due to a coach who didn’t like him and treated him unfairly; 2) He was on a 75-point pace last season and was deprived of a full season by the lockout, which was out of his control; 3) He’s seeing overpayments all around him in Toronto, starting first and foremost with a fellow RFA in goaltender Jonathan Bernier, who has has only started 54 games by the age 25 and received $2.9 million for the next two seasons.
With 3) especially, Kadri would have a point. The team went and acquired a player more for desire than need and it has put them in a tight cap situation. It’s hard for management to take the line of “potential is great, but it’s about experience and what you’ve proven” if they just handed $2.9 million to a 25-year-old RFA of 62 games; this despite having Reimer in net and before getting a player (Kadri) signed who contributed in a big way to the team’s first playoff appearance in nine years. If the team wants to talk about the 48-game sample size with Kadri, it should be wary of sample sizes and experience vs. potential when it comes to Bernier, as well. Bernier may have been exposed to an offer sheet, but so is Kadri, and the fact that the team felt it needed to lock down Bernier because they traded assets for him isn’t really Kadri’s concern.
It’s hard to argue a little below $3 million is unreasonable for Kadri if we’re going by recent comparables. It’s also hard to argue Kadri doesn’t have the right to feel a little boned based on the club’s actions earlier in the summer.
Let’s continue to hope this deal gets done before it affects Kadri’s ability to come in and have a strong camp, a scenario that could hurt all parties involved.
TSN reporting Kadri wants 3.5x2, Leafs offering 2.85x2- so they are not that far apart and as we believed in will be a bridge. Franson will then sign a one year bridge and remain an RFA next season.
Expect Franson and Kadri to be signed within the week.. Gotta get this taken care of..
Defense might be an issue this year.. IMO same basic group..can't wait to see the battle for the 6th spot back there.. Can't wait!!
Bernier and Kadri have about the same body of work, so Kadri should then also settle for 2.5-2.9M. I for one think that the Bernier acquisition was a really good move and Kadri also needs to prove himself so 2-3 years is the length.
leaf fans are funny. Frattin is a 30 goal scorer having scored 8. ...and Clarkson is a 20 goal scorer having scored 30.
...and I'm a big Frattin fan and miss him too.
I'm wondering if leafs can sign kadri to a two year with 2.8 first year and 3.2 the next with a bonus for hitting targets that could allow him to potentially make close to the 7 he's asking for? If I understood correctly wouldn't the bonus apply to the cap in the third year?
I wonder if Frattin would have been traded had he scored that breakaway goal near the end of the game in game 7. He would probably be a hero and one of the reasons why the leafs got into the second round of the playoffs.
Not if Nonis only gives him 21 to play with : )
@CanuckUKinToronto I would say coach and management are going on the assumption moves will be made to allow for a full roster. Roster size will only be decided on when camp is over. I hope Carlyle keeps his word and plays the 23/21 best players but realistically I can see 4 spots that might be up for grabs. 13 th forward is open . On D its a bit different. I see the top 4 of Phaneuf ,Gunnar ,Gardiner and Franson as probable locks . The other 3 spots are wide open IMO
@Jay_Berg Get out?!? Hahha. I'd be so rattled if I was a Flyers fan.
@darthNihilus I don't know if Franson will want to remain an RFA, he has the skill to break any spot on any team and he knows that.
@CallumConnorKnight Wildly different group in my opinion. Healthy Gunnarsson. Ranger over Kostka. Gardiner over Holzer. Better depth options. Rielly for 9 games.
@GeorgeCastanza I really liked Frattin, didn't want to see him traded and do believe he will be a very good player.....having said that, Burke always said that a good trade benefits both teams and I really hope Bernier will do well in TO and we can look back on this as a good trade :)
we just replaced Fratts 8 goals with a PTO for Mason Raymond 10 goals last yr....i think Raymond would be a solid addition to that 3rd line, skates well with an offensive touch. only 27 yrs old.
@GeorgeCastanza Especially since his main chunk of scoring occurred when he was in mid-season form from playing with the Marlies (sadly same with Kadri, but Kadri has a much much higher ceiling).
ive got nothing showing on my shaw website.....i usually paid 29.99 per month which included OHL, NFL, NHL.. but 149 is a great price.
@Denied Bolland got traded!
I agree with your top 4 but I think Ranger is a lock for one of the other 3 spots, Fraser is next in line and then the 7th spot is up for grabs. Assuming of course that Liles is gone.
@whalz Oh I agree, only except I think
David Clarkson replaces Matt frattin
Bolland replaces grabovski........................and
mason Raymond replaces Clarke Macarthur
Frattin is replaceable, if Bernier turns out to be what he is projected to be, we may have the next Rask on this team. I think it was worth a gamble.
I think with the forwards we added and a full training camp getting the hang of the Carlyle system, we should see some improvement in our own end.
@CallumConnorKnight @Cameron19 Well, 30 shots is pretty much average. That's not purely a defensive problem though. That is as much our forwards as anything else. Some nights you could have put Lidstrom and Pronger back there and had 40 shots against, because you would often have 3-4 confused players on the ice.
call me crazy, but i still think Stastny ends up a leaf....not sure how or when but id love to see PS to PK
@VaiveOClockSomewhere @Savo43 I guess so. I think Raymond is more of a 1-2 year stop gap at most though (until Leivo is ready). Hopefully D'amigo can stay optimistic and continue to pay his dues though, we WILL need him soon, injuries do happen. Also, if or when McClement decides to walk, or Kulemin leaves, we will need more penalty killers, hopefully he's patient, and when he gets his opportunity, can prove he can do more than just that. Love Jerry's work ethic, and attitude, but at the end of the day i wanna see us ice the most competitive team possible, and for me, right now, i think Raymond makes a bigger difference, at least offensively than D'amigo. Nothing wrong with being patient with young players. Raymond isn't exactly old either. I think he takes a big load off of the Clarkson expectations as well (Raymond does).
@Savo43 I agree he's good. And brings skill. And I'm all for letting the guy try to prove himself to Carlyle and maybe steal a spot. But that brings up another reason I don't like it. The message it sends to a guy like D'Amigo (or whoever is next on the call up list). He's worked his ass off the last couple years to get a chance to make the big club. If that just gets given to an established NHLer walk-on who signs a friendly contract, it might be difficult for Spott to tell the kids on the Marlies "Work hard, every game, and you'll get our chance on the big club".
But I've been wrong before. Maybe more competition is always better?
Btw, Raymond also plays the powerplay, kills penalties and does well in the shootout. Been raved by many Canuck fans to get in the shooting lanes better than anyone on their team over the past few years.
Heres some proof.
Also some more highlights.
Not sure how ppl can't be excited at what he could bring to this team in a secondary role. Very skilled team player, could do great on our young team.
@Savo43 Woah now. Lets not compare Raymond to Kessel (jk). Of course he can accommodate a top 5 NHL winger on his first line without needing him to be physical (although he did knock down Chara in the playoffs). But that doesn't mean he'll let that slide on the third line (read: grabo and macA gone).
And i say there may be room without Kadri because that's a missing roster spot. Doesn't matter if they play the same position (they have other options at center), all that matters is the roster spot.
@VaiveOClockSomewhere @Savo43 @-Keon- @GeorgeCastanza Carlyles style? At all?? Did you watch Carlyle play? He doesn't dislike the offensive side of the game, and one of Mason Raymonds assets caters to the style we WISHED to implement last year. That being the cycle and puck possession game (he also backchecks like a beast). He doesn't need to be an agitator. or physical specimen to make this club. Not with the additions we've made through trade and free agency. Much like with Kessel, Carlyle can accommodate Raymonds skillset with linemates who do the things he doesn't do well. There IS a spot open for Mason, even when Kadri comes back, and it'll be the 3rd line left winger spot (not sure why you think Kadri has anything to do with Raymond when then don't even play the same position). Raymond is blazing fast, has a deceptive shot (good release), and plays the cycle effectively with his nifty hands, awareness, and puck possession skills. Unfortunately he hasn't shown the same dominance as consistently in those areas since the boarding incident, but that being said, we've seen a certain player in our lineup prove the world wrong under worse circumstances. *cough* Lupul *cough*. There is most definitely room for Raymond on this hockey club, the rest is up to him.
@Savo43 @-Keon- @GeorgeCastanza MacArthur played like he thought he was more skilled than he actually was. Tried to do too much by himself and ended up turning the puck over. That said, Brian Murray is one of - if not - the smartest GM(s) in the league. If he see's something in MacArthur, then he's probably right. I'm betting on a great season from him in Ottawa, but the Leafs are better without him.
I can't see any way we make a spot for Raymond, unless Kadri remains unsigned. Raymond doesn't fit Carlyle's style at all.
@-Keon- @GeorgeCastanza Just timely scoring. Which was replaced :). Raymond is a skilled speedster with a deceptively good shot. Glad to regain a lot of the speed we've lost. Mason's got top 20 wheels in the game, theres a reason he was in the NHL skills for fastest skater not too long ago. Still only 27, and looking for some revival, i would love to see it here, not sure why you'd hope for anything else Keon.
@leafscapguru I'm hoping Joe Colborne has a great camp.