Home MLHS Hangout Toronto Maple Leafs Hot Stove Hangout Ep.#2

Toronto Maple Leafs Hot Stove Hangout Ep.#2

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Maple Leafs Hot Stove Hangout

Episode #2 of the Maple Leafs Hot Stove Hangout features an in-depth discussion about the Leafs/Sabres preseason punch up; the consequences of David Clarkson’s 10-game suspension; Mason Raymond’s signing and the battle for the remaining roster spots.

Featuring guest: Gus Katsaros, McKeen’s Hockey Pro Scouting Coordinator.

Hosted by: Michael Langlois, Vintage Leaf Memories. http://vintageleafmemories.com/
Co-hosts: Michael Stephens, Aaron Chan. http://mapleleafshotstove.com

688 comments
likesthelinks
likesthelinks

Is the Leafs VS Ottawa on a radio station tonight????

dlb meh
dlb meh

when the Kessel came back at Scott with that two-hander when he's on the ice it was hilarious.

a giant man who fights for a living attacked a smaller player who doesn't.  Kessel was telling the rest of the league: "if you want to come after me with ill intent i'm going to come back at you with the same intent".

Scott has a different arsenal than Phil.  PERIOD.  Maybe the detractors would have preffered the Kessel to use big words to hurt the big guy's feelings instead?  fuck off.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Gilbey93 

next generation at its finest.  Oh Canada ... where did you go?

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Loric76 

Mac was a whiner?  i thought he was a good team guy.  always liked Mac.  he was just always the guy on the roster who needed an upgrade.  Harold's mean.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh First, Kessel clearly said something to Scott to instigate Scott's attack (though it wasn't justified at all), and he didn't, as he said, backed up he moved closer to Scott and reached out to grab or touch him, THEN Scott went after him. Kessel wasn't a poor victim who was just standing there and got attacked out of nowhere. 

Second, it doesn't matter if someone attacks you like that, a player CANNOT use his stick the way used his. PERIOD. And no it wasn't hilarious. The "I was jus tdefending myself' argument goes away when Kessels skates back at Scott and hits him again. 

Kessel should be suspended for at least 1 game (probably 3) for what he did. 

Loric76
Loric76

@dlb eh @Gilbey93 no different than any previous generations...cept now they can be caught on video.

Robbies
Robbies

Hey Greg....you really are a blithering provocating arsehole.

Seriously fuck off

newkb
newkb

It is obvious that you are not a Leaf fan, but a troll. What colour is the sky in your world, because you only see what you want to see...which has zero correlation to reality.

MaxwellHowe
MaxwellHowe

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh I commend your willingness to take the most unpopular postion possible.  That said, when at least part of your opinion is based on speculation about what Kessel said, its weakened.  I don't think Scott made reference to Kessel chirping.  And it doesn't seem likely that Kessel would say something to provoke him.  Your opinion about the stick work - c'mon.  Was it really all that? 

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton

if you're only trying to have a debate you could do a lot better, but if you believe that i rest my case.

Thedoor29
Thedoor29

@wendelsway1 @Greg Fenton @dlb eh @Thedoor29  LOL WW a women that doesn't always need to be right, a leafs fan and all the logical comments you make on here. no wonder many of the guys here have asked if you are single or to marry them.  

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@wendelsway1 @dlb eh @Thedoor29 So you can't injury someone by breaking their ankle? 

Yes Scott started it, but Kessel took at swing at him with his stick. Thats not a small thing and it needs too/should carry a punishment. 

That doesn't absolve Scott of his punishment (cause there should be one). 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Thedoor29 @dlb eh It does look like an accident, BUT a player has to be in control of his stick at all times. Thats not an excuse. I think its a joke that he only got 5 games. 

wendelsway1
wendelsway1

@dlb eh @Thedoor29 See, that's how I see things...if not for Scott being an absolute Tool, none of this would have happened.  Fair went out the window when he went after Kessel.  If Kessel was looking to injure, rather then protecting himself and/or team mates, he would have been trying to knock his head off rather than taking a couple swings at ankle level.  

Thedoor29
Thedoor29

@dlb eh @Thedoor29 Have you seen the Kassian hit on Gagner? what is your take? I see it as a complete accident in my books. I have seen many guys miss a check and land that way in a hockey game and the other guys does not get hurt at all

Thedoor29
Thedoor29

@dlb eh @Thedoor29 silly question?? really never seen a NHL player on skates lose his balance while backing up

Oh and agreed scotts instigating a fight with kessel was just plain horse shit. There were other guys on the ice Ashton was just on the other side go get him

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Thedoor29 @dlb eh 

it was a silly question.  if he slipped and fell and his stick hit soemone in the head it would have been an accident.

that could have been avoided in the first place if the victim hadn't started the entire rediculous shit in the first place.

Thedoor29
Thedoor29

@dlb eh @Thedoor29 really dlb now you are just doing this for shits and giggles. We would all be here trying to defend him and hoping he only gets what bertuzi got

vacant3
vacant3

@Thedoor29 @vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Sorry, but take that situation off the ice and put it on the street. Small guy carrying a stick gets threatened by a Goliath wanting to fight. You're damn right it's reasonable for him to swing his stick. And so would you. The letter of the law and the spirit of the law don't always mesh. That's why you have judges. Not everything is clear cut.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Thedoor29door

we'd be hearing about how useless Phil is, Fenton leading the charge?

Thedoor29
Thedoor29

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton and if kessel lost an edge and while backing up fell and his stick hit a lot higher what would we be debating then?

Thedoor29
Thedoor29

@vacant3 @Thedoor29 @Greg Fenton @newkb oh come on vacant don't try to avoid the question. was it justified and understandable YES the guy is a top 5 fighter in the league and the other is a top 5 scorer in the league. is it reasonable and legal to allow players to use their sticks on other players NEVER. Sorry leafers I think Kessel gets the rest of preseason and maybe game 1

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton

the Kessel's stick would have broke before it did any real damage.

did you see anyone throw a suckerpunch to one of the Leafs on the pile? that could have been lethal. talk about that now.

vacant3
vacant3

@Thedoor29 @vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Reasonable? There's very little that's rational or reasonable when blood boils on the ice. Kessel's actions are understandable in the heat of the moment. His actions were reactions to a premeditated and provoking incident by a giant.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh 

that was not my first response to you.  and you continue to push.  you are a troll in every sense aren't you.  haha.  just consider this.  i'm enjoying this more than you could possibly be.  as irritating as you are, it's not bothering me.  you're just John Scotting yourself.  i put down my light sabre a long time ago.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Again, which is why he should be suspended as well. Unless Kessel told him "ok lets fight", which I serious doubt he did what Scott did was just as wrong (not as bad Bertuzzi jumping Moore, but similar) and he should be punished as well. 

And, swinging your stick at a player is never acceptable, and the NHL needs to get away from this "things are only a problem is they cause an injury" attitude. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton In your first responce to me about this you called me ass clown and haven't stopped insulting me since. Thats not trying thard to give my opinoin a chance. So lets cut that bullshit out. 

vacant3
vacant3

@Greg Fenton @vacant3 @newkb Yes, both parties can be wrong. But the ridiculousness of Scott actually wanting to fight Kessel (which is mind-blowingly ridiculous) means a few "can you fuckin' believe this???" jabs with a stick are acceptable in my opinion. If Kessel caused an injury, I'd agree with you. But he didn't, and so I don't.


dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh 

like everyone here, i'm trying real hard to give your opinion a chance.  every day someone goes to bat for you, then they never seem to speak up for you again.

we're trying real hard to accept you.  you're just that guy who can't make friends because you're smarter than the rest of us.

where's my ball, i'm leaving

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton considering you don't care about me you seem to spend a lot of time reading what I have to say to responding.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh 

about what?  what vinegar does to an infected lady part?  are you a professor of something you couldn't specialize in or something?  are you Tom Green?  who are you?  seriously.  i don't care a lick about you.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Absolutely (which is why I said Scott should be suspended as well), but if Gerbe swong his stick at Orr like that, and then did it againw hen Orrs back was turned, people want Gerbe suspended for that (as they should). 

People do realize its possible for BOTH parties to be wrong right? 

dlb meh
dlb meh

@vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb 

i could hear greg saying it as i read it

yet, here he is on the other side

Fenton, the Maple Leafs don't need fans like you.

vacant3
vacant3

@Greg Fenton @newkb Give me a break. If Colton Orr faced off against Nathan Gerbe, dropped his gloves and went after him, we'd all be saying what a low class move by Orr. And would completely understand Gerbe trying to defend himself by hacking at Orr's ankles. 

dlb meh
dlb meh

you know nothin', Greg Fenton

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton @newkb Maybe you're right. Maybe it is the height of funny for one pro-athlete to swing his stick at another when his back is turned...... Very reasonable. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@newkb because I can see when a Leaf player does something they shouldn't and think they should be peanlized how I'd like the rest of the league to be? 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh Yes. I also saw him act like a coward and swing his stick at Scott when his back was turned as Biggs and  Ashton were dragging him to the ice. 


dlb meh
dlb meh

fenton

at least you saw the humour in that.  and yes, that was a joke (the guys getting spooked)

but you saw Kessel stop backing up when two guys came at him agressively, right?  you did see him drop his stick and engage, right?  or do you have some voice in your head telling you Kessel stopped to beg for mercy?

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton Got spooked.....LOL. Ya, Kessel growled and he ran away. LMAO. 

Kessel grabbed one guy and the other standing there left to find someone else to fight. He didn't get spooked. Hell, that would have been the perfect time to gang up on big, mean, scary Kessel if thats what he wanted to do. 


Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Murph2417 @Greg Fenton If a player on any other team did that to a Leaf, everyone on here would be saying they should be suspended (and probably for more then 3 games). 

A player using their stick like a weapon the way Kessel, and on the second hit, to a player with his back turned.....you can't have that. Players can't do that. There needs to be./should be some kind of punishment for Kessel there. 

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh 

when Kessel put down his stick and stood his ground there were two guys coming at him.

if one guy got spooked at least the other stayed and took his licks like a good lad

man, you are such a tool greg.  honestly.  debate something else.  take a mulligan already.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Murph2417 @Greg Fenton I'm just saying, its not like Kessel is a dirty player who does this stuff all the time. He made a mistake (one he should pay for), that doesn't, shouldn't and won't effect his contract talks with the team or the money he'll get. 

IF he did this a lot and was suspended a lot, then maybe (since why pay a player top dollar if he is suspended a lot), but one time......its not a contract or value issue. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton Not sure what to make of it? Kessel says something to to him, takes his hand off his stick goes to touch or grab Scotts arm, and then Scott lunges at him. This version Kessel put there of "he said this and I backd up" is horse shit. 

Kessel did something he deserves to be suspended for. 

I wouldn't (and haven't)  say this affects what I'd pay Kessel one way or another. I don't think it changes or effects what Kessel brings to the team or his value to the team. If he starts doing it once a week......maybe then. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton He took on two guys? LMAO. Ya, the second one was there for half a second then went to fight someone else. 

ANd yes, swinging your stick at someone not looking at you (hell, with their back to your), be dragged to the ice by another player is a coward move. 

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton

the video clearly showed Scott give Kessel the warning, Kessel not sure at first what to make of it, then it happened.

i give Scott credit for not sucker punching him.  i give Kessel credit for surviving.  i also give Kessel credit for not being a victim, because the rest of his team and the rest of the league would take note.

and today the media, and you, would be pointing saying "this is the kind of guy you want to pay 8m to be your cornerstone?"

too bad, Greg.  you don't get to say that.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton

yeah, Kessel was real cowardly...especially since right after that he dropped his stick to face TWO Buffalo guys who were coming at him.

if someone slashed a Leafs player like that i'd first consider the situation.  if Orr went after Flynn and that was Flynn's reaction i would have laughed too.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh Scott never threw a punch. Its not that he missed, he didn't throw one at Kessel. He most likely was going too (and as I said, he should be suspended as well), but he didn't throw one at Kessel. 

Kessel can want to make him pay all he wants, but if an NHL player swingings he stick like that at another player, then skate away, come back and do it again when that player is being dragged to the ice (kind of a coward move no?) he should be suspended because a player CANNOT use his stick that way. Period. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton @dlb eh Both players did something wrong. I'm not one of these fans who pretends that everything a Leaf player does is justified and fine. Swinging your stick at another player is NEVER ok, and yes Kessel swining his stick at a player, skating awya and coming back to do it again is something ANY player should be suspended for. 

I don't care what Kessel said, it doesn't matter because whatever he said doesn't justify Scott attacking him like he did. What I was saying is, when asked about what happened Kessel said Scott said he was going to jump him so Kessel backed away. The video clearly shows that isn't what happened and Kessel wasn't just standing there when he got jumped. 


dlb meh
dlb meh

Fenton haha

i see. so you're of the opinion that if you miss it never happened. gotcha.

do you hear me crying about the sucker punches throw in that scrum? go back and have a look. you'll see victims on both sides.

like i said, if a guy came after me like that i would have been eager to make him pay for it. if he was carrying a machette then i'd wait until i had Jon Snow's sword in hand.

hey man, if you can skate, the Leafs can really use another winger for November 15th

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton Just looked up some stuff on it (youtube, TSN etc...). It looks like Kelata was being a pest, getting under Phaneuf's skin. I have no problem with a player doing that as long as its done within the rules, and from what I saw it all was. If/when a pest breaks the rules the refs/league need to punish them. I don't think fighting solves that problem (if anything it just tells the Pest he is doing his job), ignoring him solves the problem. 

If he did something specific that I'm missing, I might change my take on this example.  

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh 

too bad.  i'd love your take on that for perspective where you're coming from on some of these topics.

you miss many games?  did you think Scott was fired up to begin the night on Sunday?  he seemd to be looking to run guys wherever he could.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton Fenton, i'd like to know what you think of Kaleta the night before.  he drew two penalties.  in your opinion...what did you think

surely you were watching.  right?

dlb meh
dlb meh

@wendelsway1

i told you someone would come on here and tell us Kessel should have used his words

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@wendelsway1 @Greg Fenton @Tim Horton @dlb eh Yep. I said 59 minutes ago, Scott should be suspended. But so should Kessel. Both did something on the ice that players shouldn't and the NHL should sned the message can't do without being punished. 

Tim Horton
Tim Horton

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh If your being beaten to death in an alley would you grab a stick to defend yourself or not want the burden of facing an assault charge?

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Ratzshite @Greg Fenton @dlb eh Because if a player swings his stick at another player like that they should be suspended. Period. The stick isn't a weapon, shouldn't be used a weapon and players who do that need to be/should be punished. 

Ratzshite
Ratzshite

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh You threaten a skunk you get sprayed, you threaten a porcupine you get the quills, and when you thread a goal scoring forward who don't fight you get the stick. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton Scott didn't throw a punch, he might been about too but he didn't. 

Kessel did something players don't do and aren't susposed to do, and then came back and took another swing at him when he was tied up with another player (kinda of a coward move no?). 

If someone did that to a Leaf player you'd want him suspended, therefore Kessel should be suspended as well as Scott. 

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @dlb eh 

if the Kessel swung at his head THEN it would have been the same as Scott throwing a punch at Kessel's head

Kessel slashing at his legs was hilarious.  the fact he didn't swing for the throat tells me Phil isn't an asshole, but he was letting the guy know he's not going to just stand there and be a victim.

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Doorman @dlb eh @Greg Fenton 

i can only assume greg's been a victim too often in his life and never learned what fighting back could do to save him a lot of humiliation.  hash tag grow a set, son

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton You think its ok for a player (ANY playeR) to go after another with his stick like that? 

Scott's actions were wrong and he should be suspended as well. He can cherp at Kessel all he wants, he can challange him. Kessel can cherp back (which it looks like he did), but you can't just grab a player and start throwing punchs. But you also can't swing your stick another player TWICE. 

Both deserve to be suspended for that. 

wendelsway1
wendelsway1

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton @Doorman Meathead....if part of his job is to target and start fights with a player that is significantly out of his height and weight class, a nonfighter and a star player  at that.....he shouldn't be playing in the NHL.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@dlb eh @Greg Fenton @Doorman As Is aid, Scott should be suspended as well. But swinging your stick at someone isn't somethign ANY player can do, and Even if you want to play the self defense card (which is crap), Kessel skated back around and took another swing at him. 

dlb meh
dlb meh

@Greg Fenton @Doorman @dlb eh 

so Scott's quote "it doesn't matter who lined up against me there i was going to do my job" doesn't mean anything to you.

lol ass clown

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Doorman @Greg Fenton @dlb eh If another player went after a Leaf with his stick like that, I'd want that player suspended. If thats the case, kessel has to be as well.