Episode #2 of the Maple Leafs Hot Stove Hangout features an in-depth discussion about the Leafs/Sabres preseason punch up; the consequences of David Clarkson’s 10-game suspension; Mason Raymond’s signing and the battle for the remaining roster spots.
when the Kessel came back at Scott with that two-hander when he's on the ice it was hilarious.
a giant man who fights for a living attacked a smaller player who doesn't. Kessel was telling the rest of the league: "if you want to come after me with ill intent i'm going to come back at you with the same intent".
Scott has a different arsenal than Phil. PERIOD. Maybe the detractors would have preffered the Kessel to use big words to hurt the big guy's feelings instead? fuck off.
@Gilbey93 This is as much as a fight as John Scott Vs Kessel...
next generation at its finest. Oh Canada ... where did you go?
@likesthelinks TSN 1050
Mac was a whiner? i thought he was a good team guy. always liked Mac. he was just always the guy on the roster who needed an upgrade. Harold's mean.
@dlb eh First, Kessel clearly said something to Scott to instigate Scott's attack (though it wasn't justified at all), and he didn't, as he said, backed up he moved closer to Scott and reached out to grab or touch him, THEN Scott went after him. Kessel wasn't a poor victim who was just standing there and got attacked out of nowhere.
Second, it doesn't matter if someone attacks you like that, a player CANNOT use his stick the way used his. PERIOD. And no it wasn't hilarious. The "I was jus tdefending myself' argument goes away when Kessels skates back at Scott and hits him again.
Kessel should be suspended for at least 1 game (probably 3) for what he did.
@dlb eh x 2 :)
It is obvious that you are not a Leaf fan, but a troll. What colour is the sky in your world, because you only see what you want to see...which has zero correlation to reality.
@Greg Fenton @dlb eh I commend your willingness to take the most unpopular postion possible. That said, when at least part of your opinion is based on speculation about what Kessel said, its weakened. I don't think Scott made reference to Kessel chirping. And it doesn't seem likely that Kessel would say something to provoke him. Your opinion about the stick work - c'mon. Was it really all that?
if you're only trying to have a debate you could do a lot better, but if you believe that i rest my case.
@dlb eh @Thedoor29 See, that's how I see things...if not for Scott being an absolute Tool, none of this would have happened. Fair went out the window when he went after Kessel. If Kessel was looking to injure, rather then protecting himself and/or team mates, he would have been trying to knock his head off rather than taking a couple swings at ankle level.
@Thedoor29 @vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Sorry, but take that situation off the ice and put it on the street. Small guy carrying a stick gets threatened by a Goliath wanting to fight. You're damn right it's reasonable for him to swing his stick. And so would you. The letter of the law and the spirit of the law don't always mesh. That's why you have judges. Not everything is clear cut.
we'd be hearing about how useless Phil is, Fenton leading the charge?
@vacant3 @Thedoor29 @Greg Fenton @newkb oh come on vacant don't try to avoid the question. was it justified and understandable YES the guy is a top 5 fighter in the league and the other is a top 5 scorer in the league. is it reasonable and legal to allow players to use their sticks on other players NEVER. Sorry leafers I think Kessel gets the rest of preseason and maybe game 1
the Kessel's stick would have broke before it did any real damage.
did you see anyone throw a suckerpunch to one of the Leafs on the pile? that could have been lethal. talk about that now.
that was not my first response to you. and you continue to push. you are a troll in every sense aren't you. haha. just consider this. i'm enjoying this more than you could possibly be. as irritating as you are, it's not bothering me. you're just John Scotting yourself. i put down my light sabre a long time ago.
@vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Again, which is why he should be suspended as well. Unless Kessel told him "ok lets fight", which I serious doubt he did what Scott did was just as wrong (not as bad Bertuzzi jumping Moore, but similar) and he should be punished as well.
And, swinging your stick at a player is never acceptable, and the NHL needs to get away from this "things are only a problem is they cause an injury" attitude.
@Greg Fenton @vacant3 @newkb Yes, both parties can be wrong. But the ridiculousness of Scott actually wanting to fight Kessel (which is mind-blowingly ridiculous) means a few "can you fuckin' believe this???" jabs with a stick are acceptable in my opinion. If Kessel caused an injury, I'd agree with you. But he didn't, and so I don't.
like everyone here, i'm trying real hard to give your opinion a chance. every day someone goes to bat for you, then they never seem to speak up for you again.
we're trying real hard to accept you. you're just that guy who can't make friends because you're smarter than the rest of us.
where's my ball, i'm leaving
@vacant3 @Greg Fenton @newkb Absolutely (which is why I said Scott should be suspended as well), but if Gerbe swong his stick at Orr like that, and then did it againw hen Orrs back was turned, people want Gerbe suspended for that (as they should).
People do realize its possible for BOTH parties to be wrong right?
@dlb eh I know just alittle bit more then you.....
@newkb You gave the guy a like!!! lol
@newkb because I can see when a Leaf player does something they shouldn't and think they should be peanlized how I'd like the rest of the league to be?
@dlb eh Yes. I also saw him act like a coward and swing his stick at Scott when his back was turned as Biggs and Ashton were dragging him to the ice.
at least you saw the humour in that. and yes, that was a joke (the guys getting spooked)
but you saw Kessel stop backing up when two guys came at him agressively, right? you did see him drop his stick and engage, right? or do you have some voice in your head telling you Kessel stopped to beg for mercy?
Kessel grabbed one guy and the other standing there left to find someone else to fight. He didn't get spooked. Hell, that would have been the perfect time to gang up on big, mean, scary Kessel if thats what he wanted to do.
A player using their stick like a weapon the way Kessel, and on the second hit, to a player with his back turned.....you can't have that. Players can't do that. There needs to be./should be some kind of punishment for Kessel there.
@Murph2417 @Greg Fenton I'm just saying, its not like Kessel is a dirty player who does this stuff all the time. He made a mistake (one he should pay for), that doesn't, shouldn't and won't effect his contract talks with the team or the money he'll get.
IF he did this a lot and was suspended a lot, then maybe (since why pay a player top dollar if he is suspended a lot), but one time......its not a contract or value issue.
@dlb eh @Greg Fenton Not sure what to make of it? Kessel says something to to him, takes his hand off his stick goes to touch or grab Scotts arm, and then Scott lunges at him. This version Kessel put there of "he said this and I backd up" is horse shit.
Kessel did something he deserves to be suspended for.
I wouldn't (and haven't) say this affects what I'd pay Kessel one way or another. I don't think it changes or effects what Kessel brings to the team or his value to the team. If he starts doing it once a week......maybe then.
the video clearly showed Scott give Kessel the warning, Kessel not sure at first what to make of it, then it happened.
i give Scott credit for not sucker punching him. i give Kessel credit for surviving. i also give Kessel credit for not being a victim, because the rest of his team and the rest of the league would take note.
and today the media, and you, would be pointing saying "this is the kind of guy you want to pay 8m to be your cornerstone?"
too bad, Greg. you don't get to say that.
yeah, Kessel was real cowardly...especially since right after that he dropped his stick to face TWO Buffalo guys who were coming at him.
if someone slashed a Leafs player like that i'd first consider the situation. if Orr went after Flynn and that was Flynn's reaction i would have laughed too.
@dlb eh Scott never threw a punch. Its not that he missed, he didn't throw one at Kessel. He most likely was going too (and as I said, he should be suspended as well), but he didn't throw one at Kessel.
Kessel can want to make him pay all he wants, but if an NHL player swingings he stick like that at another player, then skate away, come back and do it again when that player is being dragged to the ice (kind of a coward move no?) he should be suspended because a player CANNOT use his stick that way. Period.
@MaxwellHowe @Greg Fenton @dlb eh Both players did something wrong. I'm not one of these fans who pretends that everything a Leaf player does is justified and fine. Swinging your stick at another player is NEVER ok, and yes Kessel swining his stick at a player, skating awya and coming back to do it again is something ANY player should be suspended for.
I don't care what Kessel said, it doesn't matter because whatever he said doesn't justify Scott attacking him like he did. What I was saying is, when asked about what happened Kessel said Scott said he was going to jump him so Kessel backed away. The video clearly shows that isn't what happened and Kessel wasn't just standing there when he got jumped.
i see. so you're of the opinion that if you miss it never happened. gotcha.
do you hear me crying about the sucker punches throw in that scrum? go back and have a look. you'll see victims on both sides.
like i said, if a guy came after me like that i would have been eager to make him pay for it. if he was carrying a machette then i'd wait until i had Jon Snow's sword in hand.
hey man, if you can skate, the Leafs can really use another winger for November 15th
@dlb eh @Greg Fenton Just looked up some stuff on it (youtube, TSN etc...). It looks like Kelata was being a pest, getting under Phaneuf's skin. I have no problem with a player doing that as long as its done within the rules, and from what I saw it all was. If/when a pest breaks the rules the refs/league need to punish them. I don't think fighting solves that problem (if anything it just tells the Pest he is doing his job), ignoring him solves the problem.
If he did something specific that I'm missing, I might change my take on this example.
@Greg Fenton Fenton, i'd like to know what you think of Kaleta the night before. he drew two penalties. in your opinion...what did you think
surely you were watching. right?
i told you someone would come on here and tell us Kessel should have used his words
Kessel did something players don't do and aren't susposed to do, and then came back and took another swing at him when he was tied up with another player (kinda of a coward move no?).
If someone did that to a Leaf player you'd want him suspended, therefore Kessel should be suspended as well as Scott.
if the Kessel swung at his head THEN it would have been the same as Scott throwing a punch at Kessel's head
Kessel slashing at his legs was hilarious. the fact he didn't swing for the throat tells me Phil isn't an asshole, but he was letting the guy know he's not going to just stand there and be a victim.
Scott's actions were wrong and he should be suspended as well. He can cherp at Kessel all he wants, he can challange him. Kessel can cherp back (which it looks like he did), but you can't just grab a player and start throwing punchs. But you also can't swing your stick another player TWICE.
Both deserve to be suspended for that.