Leafs Notebook – October 28

Leafs Notebook – October 28

352

Usually I like to include a little preamble before getting into notes, but the notes went a little long this week so I decided to scrap it. I’m also looking into something that could become a lengthy post; if all goes well there, I’ll hopefully have that up a little later in the week.

Moving on, there’s a lot to talk about in a week when JVR and Kessel put on a show against Anaheim, the Leafs made Columbus look a lot better than they are, and the team played two of their best periods of the season against Pittsburgh.

Notes

- I’ve written about this in this space many times over the last few years, but it’s worth repeating after Kessel didn’t touch the empty net pass by Raymond (giving Raymond the goal) and then tried to setup Bozak for an empty netter instead of going for his fourth goal of the night against Anaheim: Kessel doesn’t look to rack up points once the game is out of hand. If the Leafs get up handily on a team, Kessel shuts it down instead of trying to pad his point totals. That’s just the kind of guy he is. Some call Kessel a hot dog because he isn’t physical, but to me a hot dog tries to rack up points whenever he can in situations like those to up his totals. Kessel doesn’t.

- Against Anaheim, with 1:50 left and the net empty, the Ducks dumped it deep. Bernier came out, stopped the puck, and passed it to Franson who easily shot it out. That’s what puck handling goalies can do for you. When the Leafs played Pittsburgh, the Pens dumped it in on wrist shots more than a few times and Reimer wasn’t even coming out of his net (which is probably for the best). Also of note: Rielly was on for that late shift vs. Anaheim.

- Saturday’s game for Reimer was somewhat reminiscent of last season when he played against Pittsburgh in January. To refresh your memory: the Leafs started Scrivens not only in their season opener on the Saturday night in Montreal, but in their home opener against Buffalo on the Monday, too. That meant Reimer’s first game of the season was in Pittsburgh for the Penguins’ season opener, where many said the Leafs would get slaughtered and that they were throwing Reimer to the wolves. Of course, just like this past Saturday, the Leafs won that game, also by a three goal margin (5-2).

- On that note, when are some Leafs fans going to learn that Reimer, a) always plays unbelievable against Pittsburgh (4-0-2, .931sv%), and b) he faces adversity head on and usually comes out on top? Seemed like everyone thought the Leafs were going to get crushed by Pittsburgh in Toronto, on a Saturday night, with Reimer in net. Not so much.

- Seemed a number of people wanted to note that Bozak didn’t record a single point on Kessel’s hat trick. But, watch the hat-trick goal against Anaheim. At the very beginning of the video, Bozak ties up the man driving the net, which is the reason the puck goes untouched and swings around to JVR for the 2 on 1. If Bozak doesn’t completely tie up his man there, Kessel doesn’t score that goal.

- JVR’s speed is just incredible right now. The way he broke away from Ducks players to draw that penalty shot was jaw dropping for his height. He clearly worked his tail off during the summer and it’s showing big-time. Kudos to him. We notice it, JVR.

- I know some might suggest Clarkson getting suspended caused him to settle down, but I think the team going 7-3-0 in his absence showed him he doesn’t have to be any sort of saviour for this team. He just has to play his game, and for the most part he did try to come in and simply complement the team. He’s noticeably big out there despite only being 6’0, 200 pounds; he plays like he’s 6’5 and he finishes checks, which is something the Leafs have lacked without Komarov and Kulemin in the line-up. He put a good crunch on Crosby, who got frustrated and took a penalty moments later. That’s what he’ll bring, and it won’t show up anywhere on a score or stat sheet.

- It was disappointing to read that the Leafs had concerns about Clarkson’s conditioning heading into camp. Makes me wonder if we’ll only really start to see him hit his stride in mid season as he gets back into game shape and makes up for the ten games already lost.

- Raymond passed up a good shooting opportunity against Columbus after the puck broke loose, looking for a passing opportunity for a tap-in instead. Then, against Pittsburgh, there was a point in the second where the Leafs had three shots on net, at least five minutes went by, and the Leafs were in the Penguins zone twice for excellent cycles; a little later on, the commentators noted the Leafs had just mustered their fourth shot on net. The point is that the Leafs don’t seem to value shots on goal the way some teams do in lieu of good opportunities. I’m not saying that’s right or wrong, but I’m saying sometimes the Leafs’ shot on goal totals aren’t perfectly indicative of the flow of play because the Leafs do pass up shot opportunities instead of throwing it on net and crashing the crease. This is something Greg Cronin mentioned the Leaf coaching staff explicitly instructs the team to do.

- For what it’s worth, if you saw the way Clarkson sort of changed the dynamic of his line as a cycling menace, I think Kulemin will have a similar effect. If each of them are anchoring a cycling line, with JVR-Kessel together on the top unit, the Leafs should be in good shape once healthy.

- Loved seeing Kadri take a run at Malkin. When he does stuff like that you know he’s on his game.

- The things really killing Paul Ranger are the mental mistakes he’s making. Against Pittsburgh he twice hit shin pads with shots, and when Reimer made his diving pad save on Dupuis the 2 on 1 was the result of Ranger deciding to pinch with the fourth line on the ice. Although he technically pinched by the letter because he took his man and relied on his back-checker, you have to realize the situational circumstance when you’re on with the fourth line and the back-checker was Frazer McLaren. Backing up on that play is just smart hockey; pinch when you’re on with a Bolland, or a JVR, or even McClement. Of course, he also fumbled the puck and gave it away against Columbus for what turned out to be the game winner, too.

- Even though Kessel’s goal against Columbus was ultimately the result of a brutal turnover, that was one of the Leafs best breakouts of the season so far. JVR realized there was no clean breakout moving forward, so he moved it back to the D to regroup. The puck went D-to-D before Phaneuf moved it up to JVR, who was at the blue line instead of past center ice. JvR then hit a streaking Phil Kessel who was moving with speed through the neutral zone. See for yourself here:

- That’s what the Leafs need to do more of. If they keep it simple they will make life a hell of a lot easier on themselves.

- On the topic of that goal, Bozak made a nice pass to set up Kessel, but the biggest difference between Bozak and Kadri centering that line is Bozak is just going to try and dish it to the other two and let them do all the work. Whereas Kadri will handle it himself, make his own plays, and is more of a finisher. Their line really wasn’t doing much against Pittsburgh, and then all of a sudden they got a little open ice and scored one of the goals of the week. That’s all they need. Bozak in that same situation probably would have tried to pass to the backdoor (and that’s not a knock on him, it’s just the reality).

- Rather quietly, JVR has become a regular member of the Leafs penalty kill, averaging 2:23/night at 4 v 5 for the Leafs. When Carlyle was with Burke in Anaheim, they agreed not to put Perry and Getzlaf on the PK for fear of them blocking a shot and breaking something. Maybe it’s a change in philosophy, or maybe Carlyle just has faith in those shot-block protectors on the skates (and we know how he feels about wearing them in practice now). We’ll see if that changes once Kulemin and Bozak return, because along with McClement and Bolland those would figure to be the top four PKers on the team.

- It’s also interesting to see Bolland on the top PP unit instead of Kadri, despite Kadri playing on the top line 5v5 with Bozak out. I would assume the logic is that Kadri leads one unit while Kessel leads the other.

- One of the stranger things I saw/heard this week was Sportsnet really play up the fact that Kadri’s unit started a PP in the second period against Anaheim as opposed to Kessel’s unit, and how that “sent a message.” Even with JVR and Kessel each getting another point on Saturday on the PP, Kadri and Lupul both have more points than those two at 5 v 4 (five for Kadri and Lupul, as opposed to four for JVR and Kadri), so I’m not sure what message was really being sent? Maybe it was “We put on the guys who have been scoring more on the power play?” Sportsnet really played it up as if a turning point in the game.

- I don’t know if the Leafs sent Ashton down to build back some confidence, or to send a message, but on Saturday he sure played like he never wanted to ride the bus in the AHL again. He didn’t just come out strong against Pittsburgh; he brought it every single shift on the forecheck, won a few battles to get the puck out (including notable one in the first period where it required a second and third effort), and he was an animal along the boards. Ashton played a season-high 11:34, and he gave a glimpse as to why Ashton-McClement-Orr could be an above average fourth line.

- Maybe people get frustrated by Orr because he is about as much of a scoring threat as you or I, or maybe I have my blue and white goggles on, but he’s been fine lately for the Leafs. He gave the Leafs ten solid minutes against Pittsburgh, got in on the forecheck, banged a few bodies, and wasn’t a liability. If he gives the Leafs that all season I won’t complain (as long as they only dress one enforcer…).

- Pittsburgh really clogged up the neutral zone in the second period and the Leafs were having trouble breaking through it and sustaining any zone time, but in the third period Toronto started taking the body and creating their own space (players like Clarkson, Ashton, Bodie come to mind here). Getting physical to open more space on the ice for themselves has really been lacking in the Leaf game so far this season. Hopefully Saturday night was a sign of what’s to come.

- This has kind of slipped under the radar, but the Marlies, and by extension Leafs, have become a bit of a second-chance rehab center for players. They currently have cast-offs Stefan Legein and Jerred Smithson on their team, they gave Mike Liambas (he of the infamous Ben Fanelli hit) a tryout in the past, there’s Paul Ranger of course, all of the college UFAs they’ve signed, and even Mason Raymond. You can’t say the Leafs aren’t scouring for talent in every place possible.

***

Quotes

“There are tough minutes for him to accumulate. We think that he does a heck of a job for our hockey club, or else we wouldn’t be using him in those situations. I know that it seems to be that there’s a love-hate type of relationship at certain times, but there’s a lot of love shown from our part as far as a coaching staff.”
- Randy Carlyle, on Dion Phaneuf.

The Leafs wouldn’t be where they are right now without Phaneuf. Plain and simple.

“They’re a pain in the ass to wear. I already have big feet so adding even a little extra weight to my skate is a pain. But if it is going to save an injury then I am going to start wearing them.”
- Cody Franson, on wearing shot-blockers on his skates.

Nazem Kadri also mentioned something about it being more difficult to take pucks off his skates, but “pain in the ass to wear” is better than not playing at all, which is where Joffrey Lupul found himself.

“We have told him to find a roommate. We think it is important that as a 19-year-old he live with somebody and we have a few options. We’re not guaranteeing the player will be here for the whole year. The 10-game barrier will be gone. The option of him going to the American Hockey League is not there for us. He’ll either play with us or go back to junior.”
- Randy Carlyle, on Morgan Rielly staying a little while longer.

Kind of funny that he’s staying with Jake Gardiner of all people, no?

***

5 Things I Think I’d Do

1 – I think this will happen regardless, but I’d give Kadri every opportunity to show that he should be centering JVR and Kessel while Bozak is out. Maybe he’ll have a bad game, or struggle in a tough match-up, but he needs to get a true look in this role to at the very least gauge where he is at in terms of his readiness to take over the top spot. It was only a few years ago that Tim Connolly got hurt before Bozak stepped in and never looked back.

2 – I think I’d call up another forward who can score for this road trip (probably Leivo), because the Leafs bottom six has almost no ability to put the puck in the net and that puts a lot of pressure on the top six. A few weeks ago I said I’d be snooping around trying to find an NHL forward that’s available on the cheap, and I still would be.

3 – I think the ultimate end game for the Leafs defense is one of Gardiner/Rielly playing with Phaneuf while the other pairs up with Franson. How they get there and when they get there, I’m not sure, but I think we’re starting to see signs of Gardiner sliding in with Phaneuf here and there. I’d start to do that more consistently. Except for the Chicago game (19:56 TOI), Gardiner has played over 20 minutes in each of the last seven games.

4 – I think I’d roll with Reimer more or less until he gives me a reason not to after his game against Pittsburgh. With a 1A and 1B situation, the Leafs always need to be cognizant of keeping the idle goalie fresh, but Bernier had a bit of an extended-look opportunity and it seems Reimer deserves the same if he keeps up his strong play.

5 – I think I’d take the leash off Rielly a little bit. Sometimes you watch him and get the feeling he’s holding back in his play when it comes to puck carrying and getting involved offensively. It would help to be on the third pairing instead of playing with Franson against second lines, but I guess the Leafs are trying to grow the defensive side of his game. I think Rielly has a lot more to offer offensively, but right now I watch him and think there’s something in the back of his mind telling him not to skate with the puck as much as he wants to.

Anthony Petrielli has been writing Leafs Notebooks, also known as short stories, on MLHS since the beginning of the 2011 season. He'd rather let his work do the talking but Alec and Declan have been bugging him about writing a bio, so here it is. You can contact him at [email protected] or find him on Twitter at @APetrielli

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338 comments
Wardus
Wardus

Excellent write up as usual Anthony. Your assessments and points are bang on. Two thumbs up.

ShiftyD
ShiftyD

Excellent stuff as usual Anthony. Thanks

Bring the Cup Home
Bring the Cup Home

glad to see liles making a return to the lineup.  i really really really really don't like what ranger has brought to the table.  i believe we should end that experiment sooner than later.  sounds like nonis and carlyle agree.  i hope liles plays until we get fraser back in the lineup.  so glad we have a lot of solid young d in our pipeline.  ranger really needs to go.

LeafsForLife
LeafsForLife

Great job ANthony! Another job well done! Keep em comin. Never get tired of it!

Optimustic
Optimustic

Great Notebook Anthony.  Always look forward to it.

vinoa
vinoa

Great assessments. Every point was bang on. Especially on Reimer, it was really easy to get excited for Bernier, but we all forget what a fighter Reimer was for us last year. Loving this tandem. A Jennings Trophy season in the making?

lukethenuke
lukethenuke

With all this ROR talk below, I dont know but I think theyd want McClement and Gardiner... and that would be thier ask

Bernier_The_Boats
Bernier_The_Boats

@Jordan29 Did you ever get that brokering account set up?  If so, check out GKX.V  (My company, and stocks are going through the roof.  Get in before Nov 15th when 3rd quarter results come out.  Last Q was the busiest we have ever been.  ;)

Bernier_The_Boats
Bernier_The_Boats

It's gonna be nice sitting in Rexall decked in blue and white with my MLHS sign tomorrow night...Look for me  :)

phaneufoundlander
phaneufoundlander

"because the Leafs bottom six has almost no ability to put the puck in the net" 

Really AP? That's a bit blunt isn't it plus being an inaccurate assessment IMO.

Favell66
Favell66

Another excellent article  Anthony.  I love your insight.  When I hear about teams outshooting the Leafs like they are, I can't help but remember a team by the name of The Central Red Army , that used to get outshot regularly when they toured over here, but made their chances count when they got them.  Now, I'm not saying the Leafs are in the same ballpark as that team, but it makes me think that being outshot isn't the big deal that the media seems to be making of it....just sayin'


GreekGod
GreekGod

Spent some time in the Colorado site and they think ROR will be traded at the dead line this year. They say he isn't happy having to play on the wing. Management was pretty pissed with the way he and his family handled the whole contract situation last time around. They think moving forward it will be Duchene - Stastny - McKinnon down the middle. 

What you guys think? Will Leafs make an offer?

GreekGod
GreekGod

@lukethenuke 

No, most of the AVS fans I've been talking to said they would want a winger to replace ROR current position and a defensive minded defence man. THey have 3 offensive minded defence men in the system so they don't want Gardiner.

CanuckUKinToronto
CanuckUKinToronto

@Favell66  Red Army had the best goalie in the world at the time in Tretiak.. hence why they could do that and win.. If they had a goalie with  900 save %..they would have lost big time

Jay31
Jay31

@GreekGod I don't know, I think Roy leans on him way too much for them to trade him. He's regularly used on the PK and in score close situations for his defense

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@GreekGod I don't think hte Avs will move him, but in terms of the Leafs.....with an eye to replace who?

Bernier_The_Boats
Bernier_The_Boats

@CanuckUKinToronto @Bernier_The_Boats Not sure yet...picking up the tickets at 4:30...lower bowl is all I can say for right now..GO LEAFS GO!!!!!!! (Last Spoilers/Leafs game I was at was in 2010....the Leafs were in 29th place and the Coilers were in 30th....Toskala let in a stinker from center I believe...and we lost 4-1)  Time for some retribution!!

Cameron19
Cameron19

@Jay31 @GreekGod Well, it would almost certainly be Bozak going the other way, and I know people don't like to give him any credit, but he does those things for us, too.  Top PK unit with McClement, top forward minutes, close-out-the-game minutes.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@wiski @Greg Fenton @TheColborneUltimatum @lukethenuke I was, am, one of "everyone", I think the pushing the the barrier was "over the line" for a coach, and beyond firing them up (because really, how long can that boost last), he just has basically every forward on the team playing like 30+ year old Yzerman. 

Conis
Conis

@Bernier_The_Boats  

I'm working on a seminar, this is just the distraction i didnt need!! haha I'll look into it thank you 

Bernier_The_Boats
Bernier_The_Boats

@Conis @Bernier_The_Boats  I would recommend doing it through a TFSA if you have room....

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Jordan29 @Greg Fenton @GreekGod @Cameron19 @Jay31 Most scouts would take him top 5, but no one took him in the top 30........... Right. 

There is like 3 people arguing with me, thast hardly everyone. When cameron gave the reasons to get O'Reilly, the first thing he said wasn't talent or ability, it was age. This is just another example of Leafs fairly new obession with players ages, and as I've said "the grass being greener". 

I'm not the biggest Bozak fan, I think they need to upgrade that position before they can seriously contend (along with a few other positions), I think at 4.2 million he is overpaid and I think the Kessel/Bozak friendship/connection gets over blown by many fans. However giving up ANYTHING besides Bozak for O'Reilly so O'Reilly can take over that spot is just over payment. 

Jordan29
Jordan29

@Greg Fenton @Jordan29 @GreekGod @Cameron19 @Jay31 Actually, I know nothing about his play, but I heard that most scouts would take him top 5 in the draft if it was done over again. Thats enough for me to know hes better then Bozak. If your just looking at stat sheets then ya sure maybe you can manipulate the fact Bozak is as good. But it reality hes not. Everyone but you knows this 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@GreekGod @Greg Fenton @Jordan29 @Cameron19 @Jay31 Yes I have. I like him a lot. I'm not just forgetting that Bozak brings basically the same game for less money, and already plays well with Kessel. The ONLY way such a deal makes any sense is if its a flat, 1-for-1 deal, because its a laterial move. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Jordan29 @Greg Fenton @GreekGod @Cameron19 @Jay31 Yes, the one is accused of being negative and a Habs fan is arguing the Leaf player is good and it isn't worth giving up 2 draft picks for a laterial improvement. 

O'Reilly got some attention and hype last year when he held out, and that team is extremelly successful right now. But he isn't much better then Bozak, hasn't shown he has much, if any better then Bozak, and the people who want to make that deal are just looking at the greener grass on the other side of the fence. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @GreekGod @Jay31 "You can just watch" = I can make up anything I want argument. 

O'Reilly is currently the top forwards ont he Avs in ice-time and he plays about 1 minute less then Bozak. Yet he only has 1 more assist. This argument also hinges on the assumption that more ice=time more production and that playing with better players = more production, which isn't always true. 

But Hertl is 7 years younger. SEVEN. Are you telling me he is 19 and done developing?

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@GreekGod @Greg Fenton @Cameron19 @Jay31 Again, "grow" into what? He is a 50-60 point, two center. What else is there for him to become? He has NEVER shown the potential to be more then that. That doesn't mean he has peaked or can't improve, but the odds of him jumping a level and becoming Toews.........like I said, how many 22-23 year old players SUDDENLY show that potential and become that good? 

O'Reilly and Bozak are basically the same player, this is just a "the grass is greener" thing. I'm all for upgrading on Bozak, I don't think the Leafs can win a cup with Bozak as the #1 center. But O'Reilly isn't that upgrade. If he brought a completely different game, I could see it. For example, right now O'Reilly is on pace for 52 points, Kadri for 61, but if you told me you wanted to maket hat switch, thats a style switch. 

And as I said, if we are looking at age and "who knows, lets assume everyone has unlimited potential" when suggesting trades, why not Hertl for Kessel? He has 1 more goal so far, and is 7 years younger......Just think about how great he'll be with more time right.......

Cameron19
Cameron19

@Greg Fenton @GreekGod @Cameron19 @Jay31 No, that is not the same line of logic.  No one is looking at stats and extracting potential outcomes. You can just watch O'Reilly and see that he is more dynamic than Bozak, and that he appears to have lots of room left in his development track.  It's also situational.  O'Reilly has put up Bozak's numbers while playing in a 3rd line role with guys like John Mitchell and Chuck Kobasew, and against top lines, whereas Bozak has had the luxury of playing between two elite wingers.  It is you that is being asinine and pointing to his stats from this season next to Duchene.  Not only is that a very small sample size, but he's also playing out of position. 

-

To bring this back to your absurd comment about Hertl - his situation is what makes that a bad line of logic.  Hertl is clearly having some early success on a line with some powerful line-mates and potential hall-of-famers who always start hot.  Coming out of the gate that hot isn't all that impressive given his situation. He also doesn't look to be as gifted as Kessel. Not to say he can't be, but he doesn't look that way.  However, MacKinnon also started hot, and I probably would trade Kessel for him, because he appears to be a stud 1C in the making, and is having success with lesser line-mates and a more difficult role. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@GreekGod @Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @Jay31 To ultimately become what? Most players by 22-23, while not quite in their primes, you can tell what they are going be. Most 22 year olds who never showed top line potential, don't suddenly become Stamkos. 

I mean, but this logic the Leafs should trade Kessel for Hertl. He has 1 more goal and is 7 years younger. He is going to be a better goal scorer then Kessel right? He is only 19......

GreekGod
GreekGod

@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @Jay31 

Yup it's a good thing we didn't listen to all the people from Philly who called JVR a bust... Kadri and O'Rielly are right on track as far as development goes. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @djamon No he isn't. First, who cares if he is 5 years? Means nothing. He has yet to prove he is better offensively, and right now he has 1 whole assist more then Bozak. And Bozak is playing with guys who aren't good defensively and doiong his part plus there's. Right now O'Reilly is part of one of the best two-way lines in the game. 

I like O'Reilly, I wouldn't be opposed to gettinghim, but there has to be a REASON to get him. And replacing Bozak is making a move just to make it. As I said, say they want replace Kadri with someone more defensively responsible.....I dunno if I'd like the move but at least it would/coul dmake sense. 

Jay31
Jay31

@Cameron19 Yup, this. It's far from a lateral move. Kadri and ROR as our 1-2 punch of the future sounds damn good to me

Cameron19
Cameron19

@Greg Fenton @Cameron19 @djamon He is a gigantic upgrade on Bozak. He's 5 years younger and better both offensively and defensively.  I mean, he's not a jump all the way to the top, like Duchene would be, but he's a marked improvement on Bozak. Also, Colorado is likely to be the top team on Bozak's list of acceptable destinations. 

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @djamon Giving up 2 picks, a D-man AND Bozak for a player who is basically Bozak........Ya, its not great. 

O"Reilly for Bozak is a laterial move (and if the people on here who think signing Bozak helped sign Kessel, its a move that might piss the best forward on the team off). It only makes sense to make a deal for O'Reilly if he is going to replace someone where what he brings would be an upgrade and/or bring he would bring something they don't. 

I'm not saying I would make this deal, but FOR EXAMPLE, if they wanted to replaced Kadri with O'Reilly to bring more defensive responsibility to that 2nd line center position......that kind of deal makes sense as the trade serves a purpose. 

GreekGod
GreekGod

@djamon @Cameron19 

Really? I notice him quite a bit. He does some many things well now. Pinning guys against the boards, skating with the puck, his passes seem to be getting better and better sending guys in the other zone for the attack. I think he'll be a beast by the end of this year. Carlyle has been doing a fantastic job with him IMO

Cameron19
Cameron19

@djamon @Cameron19 That will come. It's pretty obvious they're having him work on his defensive play right now. And it shows.  He's a plus player with increased minutes and responsibilities, and he's had to do it with the worse defender on the team as a partner. 

djamon
djamon

@Cameron19 I don't put much stock into the minutes TBH. While Gradiner's minutes have been steady around 20/game...he really hasn't produced at the level he should be. I hardly notice him out there.

GreekGod
GreekGod

@Cameron19 @Greg Fenton @djamon 

Yup not only are Gunnar minutes being slowly reduced but Carlyle is starting to throw Gardiner out there with Dion on a couple of shifts per game. 

Cameron19
Cameron19

@djamon @Cameron19 Meh, Gunnar's minutes are already being toned down while Gardiner has been surpassing him for a week now. Gunnar is the piece who doesn't fit moving forward. 

djamon
djamon

@Cameron19 Yeah, see I think we'd miss Gunnar a Hell of lot more than Gardiner...right now.

Greg Fenton
Greg Fenton

@Cameron19 @Jay31 @GreekGod As with all trades, it depends on what the yhave to give up but also why they are aquiring the player. 

I don't think the Leafs give up extra assets to make a laterial move, swapping Bozak and O'Reilly. 

Cameron19
Cameron19

@djamon @Cameron19 Yes, but he's part of the core group, and going forward kind of depends on having him there, in my opinion. I'd rather a deal that looks kinda like the NYI one: Bozak+Gunnar+1st+2nd for O'Reilly. Sign Girardi in free agency. 

djamon
djamon

@GreekGod Fair enough...then those prospects (and that's all they currently are) would be excellent trade assets.

GreekGod
GreekGod

@djamon @Cameron19 

Talked to them about that... they said they have 3 kids in the system who are offensive minded defence man so they would want more of a stay at home kind of guy. LOL most of them said they would do a straight up swap JVR for ROR

I said fuck no

djamon
djamon

@Cameron19 He's been good but it's not like he's been holding the entire defense together. 

Cameron19
Cameron19

@Jay31 @Cameron19 @GreekGod They would have to think they could use Bozak on the wing to make it make sense though...Maybe not a huge stretch though. 

djamon
djamon

@Cameron19 I really like that guy...I'd give them Gardiner straight up. 

Cameron19
Cameron19

@GreekGod @Cameron19 @Jay31 Yep, but often people assume that centers can switch to wing easily enough. Wouldn't surprise me if that's the case here. 

GreekGod
GreekGod

@Cameron19 @Jay31 @GreekGod 

Couple of the guys I was talking to said they would want a winger to replace ROR's current position as well as a defence man...

GreekGod
GreekGod

@Mind Bomb @Cameron19 @Jordan29 @GreekGod 

 Not saying that. Fans on the AVS site said they would be targeting a winger to fill in ROR spot as well as wanting a defence man but not a offensive one as they have a few in the system right now

Cameron19
Cameron19

@Mind Bomb @Cameron19 @Jordan29 @GreekGod We can send them D-men, too.  We can send them Bozak, and a d-man, and picks if need be.  We can match any offer.  This isn't 2008 where any team can best our offer.  We have boat loads of assets, and everyone on our roster except Liles is a player worth having and acquiring. 

-

Also, O'Reilly is not a 1C - don't label him that way.  He's playing on a 1st line for the first time ever and he's playing as a winger.  Duchene is a 1C.  O'Reilly is a top six center with upside. 

Great Dane
Great Dane

@Cameron19 @Mind Bomb @Jordan29 @GreekGod Bozak at 4 million would fit perfectly with Duchene and MacKinnon.   He would play the third line center like Bolland is doing right now for the Leafs.

A lot cheaper than Stastny at 6.6 and ROR at what 6.2 million from next year when they have to qualify him.

Mind Bomb
Mind Bomb

@Cameron19 @Mind Bomb @Jordan29 @GreekGod

That's not what I said Cam, I never slamed Bozak, I like him, Again:

might as well trade for a natural winger and spend your cap . They will get a better offer for ROR that more suits their Needs, like a D man.

Reverse the roles, no way Nonis would

djamon
djamon

@Mind Bomb If we offered Bozak + Gardiner? They would jump at that in about one second. But if Nonis did that I would be stunned.

Cameron19
Cameron19

@Mind Bomb @Jordan29 @Cameron19 @GreekGod Why wouldn't they take Bozak?  I think you guys have really convinced yourselves that Bozak is awful as the site makes him out to be.  But like Bozak himself pointed out, there's probably a reason why two coaches have decided to make him the ice-time leader among forwards. 

Mind Bomb
Mind Bomb

@Jordan29 @Mind Bomb @Cameron19 @GreekGod  Hmm couple things though, No way Colorado will take Bozak. 4 mil cap hit, might as well trade for a natural winger and spend your cap there. ROR is a desired commodity they don't have to take what the don't want.

We would still have cap issues, so lose Kulie as well, and Kulie would probably be in the package they would want