In a far more entertaining second episode of 24/7, both clubs are mired in the frustration of losing too many games, with the respective head coaches serving as the central characters. A furious Mike Babcock sends an HBO cameraman scurrying out of the Wings dressing room. During Randy Carlyle’s outburst, the Toronto cameraman has the foresight to tape through a half-closed door rather than standing in the middle of the maelstrom.
Among the must-see Leaf-related moments:
Carlyle peels paint:
The first proper freak out by Carlyle of the 24/7 series came down 3-0 at the second intermission versus Florida. Wow.
Here was Carlyle at about 75% pissed off when the team was down 1-0 to Pittsburgh after 1:
We can’t stop:
Entered the 24/7 series hoping to see Jake Gardiner dance shirtless to Miley Cyrus? Here you go:
Dion vs. Phil ping pong match.
Talk about a role reversal: Dion is the forehand sniper and Kessel is good at defence.
Leafs vs. Penguins:
Dion and Sid have a who-hit-who argument at center ice.
A few Monday morning Leafs links…
The Leaf rollercoaster continues
Another Leaf lead evaporates late in the game on Saturday.
Nazem Kadri facing great challenges and getting less luck
From Jonas Siegel.
James Reimer wasn’t happy about getting pulled
He deserved the yank on Saturday. Makes you wonder if the reaction was more a culmination of how he feels he’s been treated this season.
Damn..I don't get HBO..I wish they would caption it on youtbue..:-) the youtube's "caption" features don't work properly..I'll have to try and get the DVD eventually..
I'm pretty surprised it hasn't been mentioned, but it should be noted that there is a lot of extra pressure on these guys with the HBO cameras everywhere. I do believe there has been something of a curse on the teams involved so far. Will be interesting to see if we start progressing once Jan.1st has come and gone. Would not altogether surprise me. A lot of the guys on this board take the attitude that "if you can't stand the heat, get the fuck out!" - but in reality, I think we generally under-estimate the mental fortitude it takes to be successful in Toronto, even at the best of times.
Interesting side notes for League Leaders
Cody Franson - 4th in hits
Gunner - 6th in Blocked Shots
Phil Kessel - 2nd in shots
The Leafs seem schizophrenic . Some games they nail it(at least for two periods), others they mail it. Enough of this team has been together long enough for there to be consistency and focus. I'm lost as to why Coaching has not been able to steady the play. Part of me sees injuries as a reason, but overall I don't feel the squad is "talented" enough. Flashes have shown what we are capable of, but the team does not have the mental strength to sustain anything. Until the Coaches and players can find a formula we are going nowhere IMO
I am not giving up on the team in its current state just yet, but I do think that ultimately we will need to shake up our forward group considerably to get more competitive. I've been saying for years that the only way to improve our defense is to play in the other zone more often, but year after year we find a way to blame our defenders and goalies. Until we shift the focus to the forward group a little bit, we will continue to struggle and face the same problems. In saying this, I don't mean to point out individual forwards as being unsuitable, or to contribute to the growing culture at MLHS for just blaming and bashing players endlessly. But perhaps there are some good and great forwards on our roster, who simply aren't helping what we're trying to build here.
@gjdevlin I like Liles, I liked Liles on the Avs. Was very happy when we got him. I still don't think he is as bad as people make him out to be. I think the more he plays the better he plays. Anyone paired with the young kid learning has to cover up for his mistakes which makes his job even more difficult.
@gjdevlin Showing him to his new team :P)
@gjdevlin Might be good... maybe motivated and going to win some battles that Liles cant/wont. Also probably increases the number of stupid and poor rims around the boards that our stationary wingers cant handle... great... pick your poison
@Waiting4LSC it also doesn't help when you can beat one of the best teams in the NHL then suck balls the next game. People will naturally question your effort.
@Cameron19 We still need someone to play with Dion though. Gunnar is not the answer.
@Cameron19 But I disagree with the defense part because I think our D needs a bit of help so that Dion does not need to play 27-28 minutes a night and there needs to be someone else who can play good d first d.
@Cameron19 That was so politically correct, diplomatic and "Canadian". (and true)
@Ryan Who cares?! Fuck the Olympics! I don't like anything that interferes with my regular NHL enjoyment. The olympics should go back to being played like it was long ago - without NHL players.
@Yaknowwhat @Cameron19 Do you honestly believe that any of them go out there with the mindset that they are just going to be lazy tonight, or mail it in, or that they don't care? What you perceive as laziness is far more likely attributable to mental fortitude, in my opinion. Fear of mistakes. Fear of what will be said in the media. Even just peer pressure - no one wants to be the guy to let his teammates down. Just ask a sports psychologist - it's a far bigger undertaking to play in front of 20 thousand people every night than we generally credit them with - and that's only the live audience.
And understand, I'm not using this as an excuse. I understand there are going to be lazy decisions, or lazy mistakes or what have you. By all means, criticize those - but at the end of the day, I just really doubt guys are trying to make those decisions. And also, literally every fan base says the same thing about their team after a loss. Lazy this, and 100% that. So I just tend to take that approach with a gigantic grain of salt. There aren't any teams in the NHL that do what you claim you "would be ok with".
@Greg Fenton @Cameron19 Well, what I'm getting at here is the potential for moving Kessel. I like Kessel, and I think he's a superstar winger. Having said that, if Carlyle is our guy (or someone like him is going to be our guy), than we need our star winger to be one who can consistently start a forecheck. This isn't a slight against Kessel - Patrick Kane can't do this either (but is far better protected from criticism with Toews on a totally different line most nights). It's just acknowledging that he doesn't have that particular skill.
I think we should have explored moving him before resigning Bozak in order to keep him happy.
Basically we need to decide if we want to be like the Blues, Bruins and Kings, and build a big forecheck team - or a team like the Hawks that is all offense and puck movement and speed. However, in the later scenario, we still need another forward of Kessel's caliber - preferably at center. Going to be real tough to acquire.
@darthNihilus @Cameron19 Yea, for sure, I just don't think it's the main problem. I mean, Colorado has made Andre Benoit a top 4 defender. A lot of good teams are getting a lot of mileage out of guys not half as talented as what we have. The difference is, their forwards don't force them to defend all night long.
@ProfessorRance hey Professor, you should log into the fantasy league MLHS3 and edit your lineup from time to time. Always more fun when everybody participates :)
@darthNihilus I just want to see Gauthier and Mcdavid play well ,and play big before we get them here in the NHL
Would you rather watch the pathetic thing we call an all star or the best players in the NHL representing their country ?
@Cameron19 I can't see them not giving it to Crosby
Crosby did wear an A in the last Olympics might be a possibility
@lukethenuke @Cameron19 @Yaknowwhat Yea, well, the board battles in our own end is a product of the system, for sure. You see that because of where they're supposed to stand, the wingers always arrive late and don't really have much of a chance. When you see guys like Lupul, J.V.R. and Clarkson struggling with that, you know it's not just a matter of effort or something like that - because these guys have a lengthy history of not having a problem with this. Especially J.V.R., where Burke said board battles was one of the primary reasons he was acquired.
But on the forecheck, yea, Kessel and Raymond in particular just don't like to engage very often. That should be manageable though. I mean, there aren't many teams who don't have a couple wingers that prefer to use speed and not engage that way. It's not like you'll ever see Patrick Kane throw a guy to the ice with a thunderous hit and take the puck.
@Cameron19 @Yaknowwhat i think its the fear of the physical game... kessel, raymond, Lupul, JVR then you mix in the boneheads defensivly clarkson and lupul and you have wingers that are incapable of getting the shitty rims around the boards out of the zone effectively. It isnt just the players fault but this is what Carlyle wants, but his players cant do it, and when your best cant it sends a message down and deflates everyone.
@Greg Fenton @Cameron19 Point taken on Kadri, but I think he CAN play that way, and will if surrounded by different group. I think he's adaptable. The biggest thing for him may be just getting Bolland and Komarov back on the roster.
I'm not saying they'd be done there, I'm saying it would be a more work-able core based on what I think we're trying to achieve. It would also be a cheaper, younger group that would grow with the expanding salary cap a little more evenly, allowing us regular upgrades whilst also giving out natural raises, etc...
@Greg Fenton @Cameron19 Well, they had a run and gun coach, but an even younger team, with weaker support pieces, and some big personality clashes with Kadri/Wilson, Wilson/Franson, etc...Ironically, this team would probably be a lot better under Wilson today.
I don't think the whole core need to be remade. But if you could somehow downgrade Kessel to O'Reilly and turn Raymond and Bozak into Evander Kane - you might have a young core that more appropriately suits the coach. Everyone else in that forward group is capable of playing the cycle game Randy wants. J.V.R., Lupul, Kadri, Kulemin, Clarkson, Bolland - they can all do it just fine.
@darthNihilus@4evrblue@Greg Fenton@ProfessorRance@Cameron19 Very true and don't get me wrong, I like Clarkson just fine and think he's a good player. Just not the fit we were looking for which is how this thread started. It's as Cam said, you don't have to dislike the player to want them moved. He just seems like he's on a different page. Also, for what it's worth, I think management is set to move Kulemin sooner or later which would leave us a 3rd line of Raymond/Bolland/Clarkson which I think could be really good. If they don't move Kulemin and you put him in place of Raymond it looks even better IMO
@4evrblue @darthNihilus @Greg Fenton @ProfessorRance @Cameron19 Yeah but the one thing that he still (to some degree) does well and did well at in NJ was possession which means he doesn't need to be the one putting the puck into the net - it will be a natural product of the offensive zone presence, theoretically, if we can believe the stats guys. Strong o zone presence for his line-mates can translate into more scoring chances for them as well.
@Greg Fenton@4evrblue@ProfessorRance@Cameron19 just another ridiculous statement Greg. How many times have I read threads on here about how teams are in a shit heap of trouble with the cap only to watch said team turn around and fix said problems without making any dramatic changes. Lets face it, you know about as much as me when it comes to cap management and thats diddly fuckin squat. Capgeek, as useful a tool as it is for us armchair GMs, doesn't tell nearly the full story.
@darthNihilus@Greg Fenton@4evrblue@ProfessorRance@Cameron19 I see it a little different darth. The #1C I agree with but I think Clarkson was the wrong piece from the start. He scored so many goals because he threw so much at the net and thats not how the leafs do things right now. What we need in place of him is a guy like Callahan, D. Brown, Chris Stewart etc. These guys bring a level of aggression but can also play a skill game that Clarkson can't. Add those two pieces and, IMO, our top 6 would be killer.
@Greg Fenton @4evrblue @ProfessorRance @Cameron19 to be fair Burke thought those players were the core that needed to be built around. His difference between re-tool and rebuild was that he wasnt going to wait for the draft when he could acquire slightly more advanced players - which he did. I disagree on that core but I am not a GM.
@darthNihilus@Greg Fenton@4evrblue@ProfessorRance@Cameron19 Now this I can agree with Darth. It's why I think they've played hardball with Franson for the past 2 years. They didn't want to commit long term because NoNo has always seen him as a piece to get a solid top 4 gritty stay at home guy that will eventually be paired with Gards.
They don't play in the NHL. Hmm interesting ? Grigorenko, Dumba and Lindholm
@Ryan @darthNihilus Couldnt care less about juniors they don't play in the NHL so no interference
Why ? So I guess you don't like the world juniors when teams give up their young promising stars ?
@Ryan @darthNihilus the all star game is even worse. Olympic hockey if using NHL players should take place after the Stanley cup or early fall before the season begins.