Corey Pronman talking draft prospects for the Toronto Maple Leafs, Edmonton Oiler and Florida Panthers on TSN 1050.
Morning Mashup Links
- Maple Leafs host Canadiens on opening night
- Spend Money, Get Points. Unless You’re the Maple Leafs of Course.
- Leafs’ Tim Leiweke didn’t want Darryl Sutter in L.A.
- Colorado Avalanche hoping to return nucleus after surprisingly successful season
- How Toronto Maple Leafs, Vancouver Canucks, Montreal Canadiens and other Canadian NHL teams stack up in the buyout process
I remember when we used to over-rate players who actually kind of deserved it - like Jeff Carter and Mike Richards. A lot of what got said about them is getting said about O'Reilly and Kane and similar players. Difference is, Carter and Richards had been to a Cup Final, Carter had posted a 46 goal, 84 point season, and Richards had been playing at over a PPG clip for over 2 seasons. Sad state of affairs when we're applying the same hyperbole to guys with 64 point career highs on the wing, with inflated percentages.
Jesus,go away for a weekend to log on to see some "vine" that I have NO IDEA what it means and then see Cam say he'd draft Kadri again over ROR and Kane
I'm going back to the beach...to drink
Based on that argument one could say you are evaluating Kadri in the same way Cam
It works both ways
@Uncle Otis I'm pretty sure Cam meant Reilly Smith...not ROR.
@Uncle Otis I just said over Kane, not ROR. But yea, over Kane every day of the week.
@Uncle Otis ROR, Kadri, and Kane are pretty interchangeable at this point. ROR has the advantage over both because of his defensive game for me though.
@Uncle Otis id take kadri over kane based on position
@dlb Mad and Spezza
@Uncle Otis Oh, and lets not even factor in their most common linemates:
Kadri: Lupul, Komarov, MacArthur, Clarkson
ROR: Duchene, McGinn, Landeskog, MacKinnon.
@Uncle Otis @Cameron19 Oh, the year he rode high percentages and Stastny took all the tough shifts while he moved to the wing of Matt Duchene? I'm shocked!! You're telling me a player had success in this position? Even more so than someone saddled with David Clarkson as on of their two most common wingers?? Well, no more need to question anything then. I'll just have to "watch closer".
@Uncle Otis He's called him ROR every other time he's referred to him. It was a mixup is all.
Well,I have seen a lot of both and there is no comparison imo in hockey smarts
The way they react,play position and force the play...with fewer turnovers by O'Reilly..one of Kadri's big weaknesses
ROR is far more the advanced player...and Kadri stil very much a "work in progress"
But I didn't see other teams offer sheeting Kadri
When you look at the two players there is no comparison in overall game imo...and if you are trying to say Kadri could be better due to skill set...well that has yet to be proven
Colorado would laugh if we offered them straight up
Because other teams would blow us out of the water scrambling to get him
And Kane is by far a superior player..but factor in wing and head space especially and I can see an argument to be made
@Uncle Otis @Cameron19 @djamon Oh, and Kane isn't the superior player in anyway except speed. Seems to me like you've been poisoned against the Leafs by all the constant negativity. Kadri has out-produced the kid for two seasons now, and as you said, plays the more valuable position. I watch both players extensively, and Kane's biggest fault is that he's a moron. Now he might get smarter as he gets older, but right now he's a one-trick pony who isn't adapting.
@Uncle Otis @Cameron19 @djamon I really don't give a shit about offer sheets or what Colorado would laugh at. Many, many good players don't get offer-sheets - including the reigning Norris defender. That speaks more to the character of the player in not seeking them out than it does to the quality of the player. Just because Jay Feaster didn't understand how offer-sheets work is hardly a ringing endorsement.
If other teams scramble that bad to get him, they are stupid. He is quite over-rated if that is case.
@loomx @Cameron19 @Uncle Otis @djamon O'Reilly is a question mark to me. The guy played most of his career as a checking center, and while he was praised for doing it at a young age, the bottom line is, his team was awful with him in that role. Is that his fault? No. But Stastny took over that role this year and did a better job immediately. Then O'Reilly moved to wing and produced at the same clip as Bozak playing next to Duchene - yet for some reason doesn't receive any of the "well look at his line-mates" stuff that Bozak does. And I'm not comparing those two players, it's just interesting what will get over-looked once people have made their mind about a player.
It just sort of boggles my mind that he's being spoken of as a legitimate 1C, and yet, he's only been in that role for all of 10 games in his career.
In Colorado some think ROR can land them PK Subban or Weber..the other side of silly
Solid two ways that can take care of both ends of the ice and play like him don't grow on trees
Kadri tantalizes and teases with talent but consistency and two way play are hardly his strong points
He's still a giveaway machine and hasn't made that final step that ROR has...and he may never
I cant understand how you don't see this,but outside of Snow,I'm certain every other GM in the league does
You don't care...fine
But to think you know better is betting on futures,not what has transpired on ice to date
@Uncle Otis @Cameron19 @djamon His two-way play is a bit of a farce though, and that will be exposed immediately if he comes to this market. He was a checking center before this year, and never did a very good job of it despite all the praise he got. This year he got to take on some lesser competition and broke out offensively, but was a minus player. He doesn't throw hits, and a lot of the qualities generally attributed to him are basically just nonsense being fueled by the good ole boys Wendel Clark fan club in Toronto.
Again, I don't care what most GMs think. Most of them are wrong constantly - which is why 3-5 teams dominate the league year after year.
Wendel Clark boyz? Not that tired argument again
Might be more the Dougie fan club...and that's a GOOD thing
You know,a tenacious puck man who creates TONS of turnovers as opposed to making them and is solid two way
I'm not saying Id take ROR over a dozen or so others playing up the middle but this is about comparing him RIGHT NOW to Kadri
To say you know more than all the other GMs and the vast majority who would agree is arrogance..based on fandom
I'm not saying I know better, I'm just saying I don't agree with them. Maybe I'll be wrong - but they're wrong often enough that I don't have to just agree with what they (or what the media tells us they) think.
Personally, this two-way play stuff is a little out of control. Is he better at it than Kadri. Sure. has he ever had success with it as a center? No. He was on a very successful team that rode insane percentages this year. Lets re-evaluate before we anoint him.
ya,ya,ya....like nobody ever loved a Leaf
@Uncle Otis @Cameron19 @djamon It's not that simple, it's about being able to do it properly - with excellent supporting players. That was my whole point. If you could stick Kadri on Duchene's wing, and you asked O'Reilly to make Clarkson work in Carlyle's system, do you really think we'd be talking about this right now? Of course fucking not, but the Leafs have shit depth and can never surround their players with enough talent.
How can you not see that one player was primed for success and one player was saddled with a far more difficult situation? Oh, and of course, we have to throw away last season - that doesn't count, because Kadri significantly out-performed him then.