Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem

by on January 22, 2013 in Analysis - 748 Comments

Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem
CHRISTINNE MUSCHI /REUTERS
Share

Despite the Roberto Luongo to Toronto trade rumours, the Leafs have begun the season with a pair of young netminders manning their crease. The duo of James Reimer and Ben Scrivens came into this year with a combined 83 starts between them. In a hockey-crazed town that hasn’t seen playoff action since 2004, all of these factors haven’t stopped management from holding firm in their beliefs in their talents while not giving up good assets for an established goalie.

You would think an experienced management team, such as the one overseeing the Leafs, would like to solidify their goaltending as soon as possible when you consider the young team they are icing, yet they have not to this point. This isn’t the first time an NHL team has gone down the path of running with two inexperienced goalies, and it surely won’t be the last. To give you an idea of how young goalie tandems have turned out, I looked up every team’s starting tandem since 1997, and recorded every goalie duo I found where both starters had less than three years of experience, just like Reimer and Scrivens.

Young NHL goalie tandems

Team
Season
Tandem
SV%
GAA
Personal record
Team record
Standings
AVERAGE0.9092.817.6
Bruins2005-2006T. Thomas0.9172.7712-13-10-29-37-1613th in East
H. Toivenen0.9142.639-5-4-
A. Raycroft0.8754.233-9-1-
2006-2007T. Thomas0.9053.1330-29-4-35-41-613th in East
H. Toivenen0.8754.233-9-1-
Sabres2001-2002M. Biron0.9152.2231-28-10-35-35-11-19th in East
M. Noronen0.8942.664-3-1-
Hurricanes2005-2006C. Ward0.8823.6814-8-2-52-22-82nd in East- Won Cup
M. Gerber0.9062.7838-14-6-
Kings2005-2006J. Labarbera0.92.8911-9-2-42-35-510th in West
M. Garon0.8943.2231-26-3
2008-2009J. Quick0.9142.4821-18-234-37-1114th in West
E. Ersberg0.92.648-11-5-
J. Labarbera0.8932.835-8-4-
2009-2010J. Quick0.9072.5439-24-746-27-96th in West- Rd. 1
E. Ersberg0.9062.44-3-2-
J. Bernier0.9571.33-0
2010-2011J. Quick0.9182.2435-22-346-30-67th in West- Rd. 1
J. Bernier0.9132.4811-8-3-
Wild2007-2008N. Backstrom0.922.3133-13-8-44-28-103rd in West- Rd. 1
J. Harding0.9082.9411-15-2-
Habs2008-2009C. Price0.9052.8323-16-10-41-30-118th in East- Rd. 1
J. Halak0.9152.8618-14-1
2009-2010C. Price0.9122.7713-20-5-39-33-108th in East- ECF
J. Halak0.9242.426-13-5-
Predators2008-2009P. Rinne0.9172.3829-15-440-34-810th in West
D. Ellis0.92.9311-19-4
2009-2010P. Rinne0.9112.5332-16-547-29-67th in West- Rd. 1
D. Ellis0.9092.6915-13-1
Islanders1997-1998W. Flaherty0.9261.994-4-3-30-41-1110th in East
T. Salo0.9062.6423-29-5
E. Fichaud0.9052.973-8-3-
2008-2009Y. Danis0.912.8610-17-326-47-915th in East
J. MacDonald0.9013.3714-26-6
Rangers2007-2008H. Lundqvist0.9122.2337-24-1042-27-135th in East- Rd. 2
S. Valiquette0.9162.195-3-3-
Senators2000-2001P. Lalime0.9142.3536-19-548-21-9-32nd in East- Rd. 1
J. Hurme0.9042.512-5-4-
Flyers2000-2001R. Cechmanek0.9212.0135-15-643-25-11-24th in East- Rd. 1
B. Boucher0.8763.278-12-5-
2001-2002R. Cechmanek0.9212.0524-13-642-27-10-32nd in East- Rd. 2
B. Boucher0.9052.4118-16-4
2002-2003R. Cechmanek0.9251.8333-15-1045-20-13-44th in East- Rd. 2
R. Esche0.9072.212-9-3-
Sharks2001-2002E. Nabokov0.9182.2937-24-544-27-8-33rd in West- Rd. 2
M. Kiprusouff0.9152.487-6-3-
2002-2003E. Nabokov0.9062.7119-28-828-37-9-814th in West
M. Kiprusoff0.8793.255-14-0
V. Toskala0.9272.354-3-1-
2011-2012A. Niemi0.9142.4234-22-943-29-107th in West- Rd. 1
T. Greiss0.9152.39-7-1-
Leafs2011-2012J. Reimer0.93.114-14-435-37-1013th in East
J. Gustavsson0.9022.9217-17-4
Capitals2010-2011M. Neuvirth0.9142.4527-12-4-48-23-111st in East- Rd. 2
S. Varlamov0.9242.2311-9-5-
B. Holtby0.9341.7910-2-2-

Other than the Islanders and 2005-2006 Kings, along with a jury still out on Toronto, San Jose, and possibly Washington, all of the teams emerged with a bonafide number one for some period of time. From Tim Thomas and Jonathon Quick, to Patrick Lalime, Henrik Lundqvist and Evgeny Nabokov, these are just some of the goalies that emerged from young duos to become successful goalies in this league.

Further to the point, not all of these goalies were exactly dripping in pedigree and upside when they first began here. Tim Thomas was basically taking one last kick at the can after failing to stick in the NHL and going off to Europe during his first go-around, Lundqvist was a 7th round pick who worked his way to New York (sound familiar?), Quick, after quickly showing he was too good for the AHL, actually staved off a guy in Jonathon Bernier, who the Kings had drafted to be their guy in the first round.

Goaltending is by far the hardest position to predict, especially when it comes to drafting kids to be your starter five years down the road. Don’t let anyone tell you otherwise.

That’s partly an endorsement on Luongo, but that’s also partly an endorsement on Reimer and Scrivens. Everybody knows Luongo is, at the very least, an above average goalie on a contract with an absurd term. The pros and cons of Luongo have already been covered by the masses, so there’s nothing really to add anymore.

But what the Leafs currently have, however, aren’t exactly bums. This isn’t the Islanders running a tandem of Yan Danis and Joey MacDonald. Dave Nonis actually summed it up best when he said, “The only issue I would have with our goaltending would be experience. It’s not that they’re not quality goalies.”

James Reimer, albeit in a limited amount of games, showed he could play in the NHL at a high level in his 37 game stint during the 2010-2011 season. Before then, he was good in the AHL, ECHL and in the WHL even before that. He didn’t just come out of nowhere to play 37 good games, causing Toronto to make a rash decision. He’s been a good goalie at every level he’s played at, has good size for position, and an even better mentality.

Meanwhile, Ben Scrivens has been one of the best goalies in the AHL for the last season and a half. Prior to being signed by the Leafs, he absolutely dominated the college circuit. He too has shown flashes at the NHL level of being able to compete at a high level.

So what does this all mean? That if the Leafs run with Scrivens and Reimer, eventually one will step up and become a star? Not necessarily. However, in my estimation, it means enough to me that I’d be willing to run with the two in a 48 game season to see if one emerges as the clear front runner between the two. Clearly Scrivens has the advantage because he’s in midseason form, but Reimer is in the same boat as most NHL goalies at the moment (having not played actual games during the lockout), and hopefully, for his sake, he will be able to get his game going and subsequently create an environment in which both goalies challenge each other for starts nightly.

James Reimer ($1.8M) and Ben Scrivens (612k) are both under contract for next year at extremely cheap deals for goalies. If both play well, the Leafs can just keep both again and go from there. If only one plays well, they can easily cut bait with the other and look to bring in a more experienced guy to support the one who wins the gig (Backstrom, Thomas, Theodore and Garon are all UFAs and solid goalies). And if they both struggle? I’m sure Luongo will still be available. Nobody else seems to want him anyway.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 10.0/10 (1 vote cast)
VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: +1 (from 1 vote)
Leafs not in uncharted territory with young goalie tandem, 10.0 out of 10 based on 1 rating

Print article

  • MSM

    Those scholarships aren’t the same as 20-30 years ago. Full scholarships are rare now in hockey.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • rustynail

    wrong shooting oops

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • keon

    Smart man

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • phaneufoundlander

     awesome, the kid is wise..I’ve never had a new vehicle either, I always wait for the 2 yr lease to come back and add extra warranty….news cars are overpriced

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • keon

    More:

    Scrivens is comfortable with less is more. In early September with the NHL lockout on and on the guarantee of his AHL cheque to come he and his new wife moved into an apartment in Toronto’s west end — a basement apartment.

    For Scrivens it was perfect — handy to the Leafs practice facility, an easy trip downtown to the ACC and close to the subway and shopping so there was no need to buy another car. Frugal, even if it means he might be the only NHL player living in basement digs.

    “I just hated condo living,” he said of the previous two years he spent living in a high-rise. “But apparently I’m a different breed.”

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • OBIE

    Almost 1,000 gun slayings in US since those children were killed at Sandy Hook last month.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Inchesstyle

    Toronto/Pittsburgh

    Proposal 1:

    Nikolai Kulemin
    Mike Komisarek (40% of cap hit retained)

    Olli Maatta
    Eric Tangradi
    Robert BortuzzoProposal 2:

    Nikolai Kulemin
    Mike Komisarek (40% of cap hit retained)

    Derrick Pouliot
    2013 Conditional 1st (If Pens win Stanley Cup, if not changes to a 2nd)Why the Pens do it: Malkin gets his two wingers for the next 10 years – Kulemin has had proven success in the KHL with Geno and a Kulemin-Malkin-Neal line would be arguably the best in the NHL. Not to mention that adding Malkin’s buddy would give him more incentive to resign with the team. The Pens also get Komisarek at a 2.7 cap hit, it will put some pressure off of Despres and they will have a shutdown line that they can use in the playoffs.Why the Leafs do it: For proposal #1: The Leafs get a guy who many scouts said that was a top 15 prospect last year. He is projected to be a top 4 defenseman and would be a great linemate to Reilly. The Leafs also get a big bodied 23 year old winger that has top 6 potential, and gets a NHL ready defenseman that can replace Komi in the bottom 2.For proposal #2: Derrick Pouliot has a very high offensive ceiling, he is tearing up the WHL and is looking like a guy who could fit into a top 4 on a team like the Leafs. Imagine Rielly and Pouliot on the power play, nice. Leafs also get rid of their whipping boy and get a possible 1st in a very deep draft.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • phaneufoundlander

    anyone think there’ll be a 50 goal scorer this year?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • rustynail

    Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN
    #Isles Nino Niederreiter’s camp is seeking a trade from the Islanders, a source tells ESPNNY. Unhappy with current situation

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • rustynail

    counting playoffs? :) nope

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • phaneufoundlander

     interesting…I hope Tavares feels the same :)

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • dtime66

    yes, colton orr and komisarek have lost weight and are looking to make a statement this year

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Mattmark

    I’m surprised at the willingness of so many here to get rid of Franson, and even Gunnarson.  It takes years to develop cohesive defensive units, and rotating youngsters through defense pairings every few months isn’t the way to do it… not if the goal is to play tight defensive hockey.  Phaneuf, Gunnar, Franson, Gardiner, Kostka and Liles are all NHL-competent, and with the exception of Liles (who can be replaced by Rielly in two years) their best years lie ahead of them.  They should be kept together and allowed to develop.  Fraser (if he can clear waivers), Holzer and Gysbers should also be retained as reliable backups on the Marlies.  Komisarek should be given his walking papers.

    Meantime, the Grabbo line continues to disappoint.  Grabbo and Kulie are adequate, but not enough to carry MacArthur whose skill level doesn’t match what he tries to do on the ice.  MacArthur should be packaged with a prospect (possibly Blacker) who is good enough to get us a legitimate scoring threat in return.  (Imagine how good a Grabbo-Kulie-Nash line would have looked.)

     

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • phaneufoundlander

     c’mon, take a gamble…I’ll take Stammer

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • rustynail

    Komi straight up for disgruntled Niederreiter and we pay 1/2 his cap and salary?

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • keon

    he should just shut up and play hockey

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • rustynail

    wonder if it is him or his agent looking for a bigger pay day.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • keon

    I`d much rather keep Blacker than Franson. The Leafs have a nice assembly of offensive dmen in the pipeline, Blacker is perhaps the only defensive minded player behind Holzer and Fraser, need to have a balance.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • TheCanucksnaphook

    agreed Blacker over Franson

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • keon

    Kid hasn`t proven anything yet, drives me nuts when this stuff comes out.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Inchesstyle

    blacker finn rielly percy nice draft picks followed by what leafs currently have on main team

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • keon

    I can see Percy being trade bait over the next couple of years, maybe sooner

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Pent_House

    Maybe if he wasnt the bust of the century he’d be happy 

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • DSM

    Mash had control of where he wanted to play, teams’ offers were irrelevant. He wanted to play in New York and that’s where he went. Just like Richards.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • AussieLeaf

    Sorry but I can’t see them taking on Komi’s salary cap when they have the problem with Paul Martin’s salary / cap hit. Kulemin and Gunner for their first 2013 pick and a prospect (NOT Pouliot or Tangradi) could be there as we get close to the trade deadline.  

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)