Wednesday Morning Mashup: Squeeze

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By my estimation, the Leafs have 10 forwards, 4 defencemen and 2 goaltenders (after dropping the expected Marlies-bound players from their capgeek page) signed with about $10.95 million in cap space available. RFAs Nazem Kadri, Cody Franson, Carl Gunnarsson, Mark Fraser and Joe Colborne still left to sign.

We’ll see if Nonis can finesse the remaining RFAs in under the cap at better deals than he got on Bernier (who, after giving up assets for him in a trade, Nonis must have feared paying even more than 2.9 for through an offer sheet). If we were to be conservative and put Kadri and Franson at $3 million even, Gunnarsson at $2.5m, Joe Colborne and Mark Fraser at $925k apiece, the Leafs might be able to just fit it all under. But those are pretty conservative figures and leave little wiggle room as is, so Nonis may need to make a space-clearing measure (most obvious option being moving John Michael Liles, perhaps retaining a little salary in order to do it).

Interestingly, if the Leafs had let Bozak go and bought out Liles with the compliance buyout instead of Grabovski, they would have an extra 2.575 million in space with which to get these deals done. That said, while I’m of the opinion that Bozak over Grabo was a downgrade in the hockey talent department, it is too soon to say if the Leafs mismanaged the cap or saved on cap space by keeping Bozak and buying out Grabovski (as opposed to Liles). After the season he had, Grabovski didn’t seem tradable at $5.5 million and Liles may well be. Let’s see how it plays out.

A few links..

Don Cherry is not a Bozak fan
Worth thinking about: as Bozak came out of the NCAA, Don Cherry may think he’s one of those Americans Wilson and Burke brought in. But seriously, this is telling. Sidenote: I don’t think the Grabovski/Bozak thing should be pitted as a debate of advanced stats crunchers vs. traditional game watchers. I’ve always been an eyeballs-first kind of guy and there’s really no question Grabo is the better player. The other side of the argument (pro-Bozak) seems to mostly involve sentiments that Grabovski wasn’t a good fit here anymore, not meant for/happy in the checking line role, not a good match next to Kessel, and usurped by Kadri for the second scoring line center position… not that he wasn’t the more talented player.

Not Advanced Stats – Grabovski is still the better player
From Cam Charron.

Where does Joe Colborne fit now?
I say with the big club as a winger to start. Lots of patience for this player.

Blue Chip Prospects’ take on the Leafs Off-Season So Far

Jim Hughes interview from day one of Leafs prospect camp. See also: Morgan Rielly, Tyler Biggs, Andreas Johnson.

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Alec Brownscombe is the founder of MapleLeafsHotStove.com, where he has written daily about the Leafs since September of 2008. He was also the editor of the 2009-12 Maple Leafs Annuals. You can contact him at [email protected]
  • Burtonboy

    Morning Alec. Thanks for the mashup. No question a trade or buyout of JML is the only way the leafs can have a manageable roster this year. A buyout of Liles would leave us in good shape but a salary retained trade of 1 mil per would be even better. Hopefully we can just do a hockey trade and just be rid of the salary completely but that might be tough . Most teams are in worse shape then the Leafs. 
    http://www.capgeek.com/cap-calculator/roster/28462

    • B_Leaf

      Burtonboy 
      g’mornin BB
      I think people are really under estimating Fraser’s value and cap hit. I would be ecstatic if we could get him signed for $1M.  A team might offer sheet him…I would. He was arguably the best bottom pair defenseman in the league. His skating is vastly improved, and he bring a major physical factor. Hopefully his head is OK after that puck hit him.

      • Burtonboy

        B_Leaf Burtonboy You think he might not get beat out by some of our rookies ? There’s every possibility he can .

        • B_Leaf

          Burtonboy B_Leaf 
          The rookies won’t bring the grit and strength needed there

        • Burtonboy

          B_Leaf Burtonboy We will see. I’m not as big a Fraser as most . Ss the yr progressed and he got exposed to more minutes against better players his deficiencies become more pronounced. Would rather a more skilled faster player like Blacker or Granberg to get a chance

        • Burtonboy

          Yaknowwhat Burtonboy B_Leaf and it dropped off real fast when he played more minutes against better players. If you had Fraser playing 2 nd pair minutes all yr like he did in the second half I bet his plus minus would have been nowhere close to what it was

        • Burtonboy

          Yaknowwhat Burtonboy B_Leaf Because I would rather give a better player the opportunity the chance to play

        • Burtonboy

          Yaknowwhat Burtonboy Blacker ,Granberg ?

        • B_Leaf

          Burtonboy Yaknowwhat B_Leaf 
          I only saw Fraser struggle in the playoffs…and I think that was bad puck luck and an anomaly more than the norm. Had he stayed healthy I think he would have been huge in game seven when the Bruins were really throwing their weight around (illegally I might add).

        • Burtonboy

          B_Leaf Burtonboy Yaknowwhat I guess we saw different  things then. I saw a player who struggled the second half when his minutes increased.

        • Tommy Cat

          Burtonboy B_Leaf Yaknowwhat I saw a player who took a brutal shot to the head.  That makes you worry.

  • B_Leaf

    I may have been the biggest Grabovski fan here for four years running but I will admit that last year alone, Bozak was better. I’ve said this a hundred times before and I will say it again…Grabovski wasn’t right last year, maybe it was partly the coach, but more likely health, but it was not his role. Grabovski prior to last year was always extremely good in his own end. Grabovski himself asked Wilson for a bigger checking role and PK duty when Wilson was here so I really doubt the role had anything to do with it. 
    If Grabovski wasn’t going to get better than maybe Nonis made the right move, but if he gets back to playing at the top of his game it was a very bad mistake…time will tell on that one.
    But getting Bozak at what we got him at on its own merit was a good deal. Bozak doesn’t play the game for points, he plays for wins. Last I checked wins are what matter, and he proved to be one of the most irreplaceable players on this team. Carlyle used Bozak more than any other forward on this team for that very reason. He understands exactly what is needed at any given time in the game and puts a 100% towards that. He is not Jonathan Toews but he does model his game after him. 
    I am not overly impressed with our off season, I think we zigged when we should have zagged. But bringing back Bozak is probably the best decision Nonis made.
    Buying out Komi instead of Liles seems very short sighted to me. If we had of retained some of Komi’s salary I think he was more trade worthy with only one year left. Just sayin.

    • B_Leaf

      -Keon- 
      Good points. But with Komi’s deal only being one year I think Liles was the smarter compliance buy out. Komi could have stayed in the A or have had a normal buyout used.

    • Burtonboy

      Yaknowwhat -Keon- Then sign all the RFA’s tso we use up our reaming cap then let Fraser got to arb to drive us over and allow the buyout to kick in

  • Tommy Cat

    Tradiing Liles will be more than a little tough. He has a modified NTC where he can list 18 teams he won’t accept a trade to. You can be well assured that the sad sack teams with the cap space to take his 3 mil plus contract for the next 3 years will be on that list. Also to make it work for the Leafs they can have no roster players coming back, just picks prospects and the other GMs all know that. SO does the player still have trade value? Or will Nonis just give him away if any teams wants the contract as well as the player and they are on Liles accepted list?

    • Burtonboy

      Tommy Cat Lots teams with practically full rosters right now and plenty of cap space who could easily take on JML in a retained salary transaction.  If the Leafs retain 1 mil 2.8 is very manageable for lots of teams 
      http://www.capgeek.com/

      • Burtonboy

        Yaknowwhat Burtonboy Tommy Cat Maybe those teams feel the same way about Grabo as the Leafs did

      • Tommy Cat

        Burtonboy Yaknowwhat Tommy Cat I wouldn’t say they are all lined up for JML either.

      • Burtonboy

        Tommy Cat Burtonboy Yaknowwhat Who knows so theres always the buyout option which the Leafs could maneuver themselves into without much problem

      • Burtonboy

        Yaknowwhat Burtonboy He said he offered him to teams in a retained salary transaction in his presser

      • Burtonboy

        Have no Idea but it wouldn’t make sense to go much more then retaining a mil . The buyout was obviously his only option.

      • Cameron19

        Yaknowwhat Burtonboy Tommy Cat I don’t think there’s even a sliver of a chance that the Leafs offered to retain 50% of Grabovski’s contract – that completely eliminates any cap advantage for us in moving him.  Way too much.

    • Tommy Cat

      -Keon- Would it not be the same?  If it was any different as the years rolled would it not say?

      • Cameron19

        Tommy Cat -Keon- No, Capgeek doesn’t know what clauses are in contracts until they become media storylines.  I’m fairly certain his current NTC is much less restrictive than his last one.

      • Tommy Cat

        Cameron19 Tommy Cat -Keon- That just a guess or did you read it / hear it somewhere?

      • Cameron19

        Tommy Cat Cameron19 -Keon- I’m going off my gut from what was said around the time of the signings.  But typically, you can’t command the same level of security as you get older  I can’t imagine Burke gave him the same level of security he gave Grabovski, who he obviously deemed had higher value…

      • Tommy Cat

        Cameron19 Tommy Cat -Keon- From the agent / player prespective the NTC clause in the first year of two probably won’t make a big difference as the team just signed you and you would expect to keep you for a few.  But if I’m a player I would like the NTC to be stronger on the back end when the likelihood of having to use it greatly increases.

      • Cameron19

        Tommy Cat Cameron19 -Keon- Of course, but only the most elite players get those sorts of deals, and even then. Most players that have NTC’s see their effectiveness fall apart in the later years. 

        Plus, this is all a bit too technical – just ask yourself what type of guy Liles and why he wanted that clause in the first place?  To me he seems like an outstanding community member and veteran, and likely just has it so that should he have to move, his family gets a say about where to.  Lots of guys are like this – they say they just want to be part of the process.

      • Tommy Cat

        Cameron19 Tommy Cat -Keon- Very good point.  A guy like Liles would have deep community roots after a few years.

  • Dink

    I think you will find everyone gets signed and Liles stays too, rightfully so. He will be needed.

  • B_Leaf

    Colborne can play on the Marlies…but our key guys to get signed are Franson, Kadri, Gunnarsson, and Fraser. Still hard to see with Liles ridiculous contract.

  • B_Leaf

    Yaknowwhat 
    Good question. I dont really know if the MRI pictures floating around were really him, but if so he may need a little more time to heal….how long does it take a hole in your head to heal?

    • Bobsyouruncle

      B_Leaf Yaknowwhat If you don’t know the answer to that, who does?   : )

  • Tommy Cat

    Yaknowwhat Let’s hope.

  • B_Leaf

    Hope we get another Jim Hughes interview today…the guy is a bit of a rock star with the mic.
    If anyone goes down to watch the rookies I will guarantee you that one player will stand out to you….any guesses who?

    • Tommy Cat

      B_Leaf The obvious choice would be Rielly?

    • B_Leaf

      -Keon- 
      Which one?

      • B_Leaf

        -Keon- 
        But if you had to pick just one?

      • http://twitter.com/jmckelvie RielledUp

        -Keon- Flaake

      • B_Leaf

        -Keon- 
        LOL, I guess Rielly does stand out as well…and maybe it is expected so it doesn’t seem quite the same.
        But I will say this…Toninato jumps off the ice at me when I watch him. The one guy who stands out most to me is him.

    • Tommy Cat

      -Keon- Does Toninato play with a dead crow strapped to his helmet?

  • Mind Bomb

    Good morning Folks !

    • mcloki

      Morning MB

      • Mind Bomb

        mcloki Sup MC, you guys a little drier this morning in TO ?

        • mcloki

          A little. Surprising how much damage was caused. Lots of flooded basements.

        • Mind Bomb

          mcloki Stay dry bro ! I bet there are a lot of unhappy insurance adjusters !

  • Mike Bosse

    Just a thought here not even sure if it works, if I remember right a few sites this one included stated tha t Nonis had said at the draft and the acquisition of  Boland and before we got Clarkson that cap clearing measures were still to come, now Grabo and Komi are gone but we still need to move some $$$ around. We all know Colorado has said Stastny isn’t going anywhere, but if there’s one thing we as fans know the B.S. is piled higher just before a major deal……..now bear with me is it possible the Avs may have a deal in place only if the Leafs resign Bozak? Liles back to the Avs one of our better defense prospect from the Marlies and Bozak, from the Avs Stastny and a 2nd round pick, they have about 9.2M cap room we have 10M it may require a 3 way trade with (for arguments sake say the Oilers) who would take on Liles and send a young roster player to the Avs or is it possible we retain some of Liles salry like the story says that would be tough to do since Stastny is at 6M we may even have to do something like a 4 for 2 trade…..thoughts????  GOOD MORNING everyone!

    • Mike Bosse

      Sorry forgot in my rush to add this link of 3 teams who still need defensemen, and the Flyers are one but are hard against the cap.
      Three teams looking for defense
       http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/52763-Three-teams-looking-for-defense.html

      • Burtonboy

        Mike Bosse

        “Dave Molinari of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported the http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/sports/penguins/penguins-defensive-corps-crowded-after-rob-scuderis-signing-694589/ once restricted free agents Dustin Jeffrey, Robert Bortuzzo and Harry Zolnierczyk accept their qualifying offers or re-sign longer-term contracts.
        That’s prompted speculation defenseman Matt Niskanen ($2.3 million cap hit) is a candidate for a salary-dumping trade”.

        I could easily see the Av’s taking Liles in a retained salary transaction.  2.8 mil for Liles if we retain 1 mil

      • Cameron19

        Mike Bosse Our best chance to move Liles is with the Islanders and the Oilers.  Liles would actually serve a purpose with those teams, and both can easily afford him.

        • Mind Bomb

          Cameron19 Mike Bosse  I know they do not have a lot of Cap, but after watching Minny last year, they could use Liles as well, and it seems NJ is trying to compete with the Ryder and Clowe signings

        • Mike Bosse

          Cameron19 Mike Bosse I like the Isles idea but we would have to eat salary, isn’t that why they moved Streit???

        • Cameron19

          Mind Bomb Cameron19 Mike Bosse Think that NJ is trying to resign Zidlicky, though…Minnie just has no cap space to make that work.

    • Mind Bomb

      Mike Bosse  Morning Mike, Signing UFA’s and then trading them is not good business. I cant see Bozak being moved bro. Do it once and the only UFA’s that will sign with you will want an NMC,as they cant trust the GM not to trade them

      • Mike Bosse

        Mind Bomb Mike Bosse good points everyone, I know Liles is moveable and shipping him west to Oil country seams like a good Idea I doubt we’d get much in a deal like that unless we ship two out the Oil have state dthey would be willing to pay with a young roster player.

      • Mike Bosse

        Wouldn’t be any worse than Carter and Richards, maybe we hold off till into the season….but still the players know it’s a business, can’t be any worse than signing them for 5 years at high wage and buying out the last 4….yeah a little different in that the player gets rich but hey! Also why isn’t Grabo being heavily pursued ????? Or is he????

        • Mind Bomb

          There is nothing worse really than Philly trading carter and Richards lol 

          Idiots !

        • Mike Bosse

          Mind Bomb Yeah that was friggin rich, Homer lol he kills me!!! Then he follows giving Breeze a big contract, the reason he moved Carter and Richards (so he says) then after two seasons buys him out heheheh!  They lost assets big time over the course of just 2-3 deals. Which is good for us keep up the FAIR work Homer!

        • Mind Bomb

          Mike Bosse Mind Bomb  Its more like a Circus than a Fair :)

  • Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs

    FFS
    Its NOT Bozak over Grabovski. Bozak wasnt hired instead of Grabovski. He wasnt brought in to replace Grabovski. His contract was extended. He was already here.Hes played well, at a ridiculously low rate and got an extension and raise.
    The issue is Bolland instead of Grabo. OR Kadri versus Grabo
    Bolland on the 3rd line > Grabo
    Kadri skill > Grabo skill.
    Therein lies the real issue.

    • Cameron19

      Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Precisely. Any beef with Bozak should be comparing him to any future center his contract prevents us from acquiring.  If the trade and free agent market continues to be stagnant, that may be no one anyways…

    • Tommy Cat

      Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Here Here

    • wendelsfist

      Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs The comments are better then Cam’s entry itself.  I hope it was posted for comedy and not because Cam thought it was good work.  

      The other good comment that Cam fails to respond too is how Mclemment/Grabbo produced the same offence while Mclemment had tougher zone starts and minutes.  What Cam should conclude is that Mclemment > Grabbo as a 3C.  Again this does not pass the eyeball test but the point is just how much confirmation bias exists in this entry by Cam.

    • Bobsyouruncle

      Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs No, the REAL issue is why did Coach Idiot turn a 3 time 20 goal scorer and multiple 50 point man into a wasted compliance buyout that got us no return on a good player.

  • wendelsfist

    Alec it is a good think you are eyeball first kind of person.  Like one of the commentors in Cam’s article mentions Bozak/kessel have a superior Corsi together then Grabbo/Kessel during the 2012 season.
    This is what wrong with those that preach advanced stats.  They talk about how great they are but when the data that doesn’t support their views they ignore it and hope no one notices.  What Cam should say is that advanced stats (Corsi) does not support my case that Grabbo is superior to Bozak using shot data from last season but even then I will side with my eyeballs.  I can accept that, but to pretend advanced support his position is just poor analysis to support a narrative.

  • Burtonboy

    Catch up later folks . Heading to Moncton for the day .

    • Mind Bomb

      Burtonboy  Enjoy your day BB

  • Jay_Berg

    Remember when typing Berger was banned? Can we do the same thing with Corsi? Can’t stand that argument anymore

  • Bobsyouruncle

    Do you agree with Don Cherry that Tyler Bozak is a “plugger”?

    • Bobsyouruncle

      83% say yes.

      • leafscapguru

        Bobsyouruncle its not set in stone that Bozak will play 1C he will start the season in that position, but if Kadri continues on his development I see Kardi playing with Kessel and Bozak dropping to 2C which would be fine with me and then the deal was done properly.

    • Cameron19

      Bobsyouruncle I don’t know that he’s a plugger.  That’s a little harsh.  The 83% were largely directed there by PPP, but whatever the case, he’s certainly the glaringly obvious weakness in our top six.

      • Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs

        Cameron19 Bobsyouruncle  
        I dont see Bozie as a weakness at all in our top 6. I see him as part of a squad that gives Carlyle endless opertunities depending on who the opposition is that day. One day we can play Bozzie 1c Kadri 2c and Bolland 3c, next day kadri 1c Bolland 2c and Bozie 3c. Keeping people fresh, defending against a teams particular strong line or even pitting an unstopable combo against a weak defence. Thats far better surely than going the NYR route where the spend too much money on one man and when that doesnt work try and put Richards on the 4th line and wonder why they exit the playoffs.

        • Cameron19

          Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Cameron19 Bobsyouruncle We’re still going to struggle in the playoffs when it comes down to line-matching though.  Kadri can take Kelly, and Bolland can probably handle Krejci, but who’s got Bergeron?  Bozak? 

          I guess you could argue in that particular match-up, that Kadri win his match-up as handily as Bozak loses his, so it’s a wash.

        • Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs

          Cameron19 Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Bobsyouruncle  
          Whohandles Bergeron well.??
          Why spend 7 million on a guy that will inevitably lose out to Bergeron, surely 4.3 would do, lol.

        • Bobsyouruncle

          Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Cameron19 Bobsyouruncle Don’t hold your breath. Carlyle could of done that this year and didn’t.

        • Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs

          Bobsyouruncle Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Cameron19  
          I dont see Grabo with Kessel at all.And to be honest I think everyone knew that Grabos days were numbered. I think Grabo was put out of the way so as we got used to playing without him. And like Grabo said himself, he was pencilled in on the 3rd line but barely got 4th line minutes some nights.
          I just dont think he fitted in. Simple as.

        • Bobsyouruncle

          Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs Bobsyouruncle Cameron19  I think prior to the arrival of Carlyle very few people here would have imagined that any coach could make an asset like Grabovski worthless and in so doing actually waste a compliance buyout that we sorely need now. All hail Coach Idiot!!

    • Zeus_WilliamMapleLeafs

      Bobsyouruncle  
      No
      But I will join the chorus of people who believe Cherry is an outdated half wit who brains have been fried by endless after dinner drinks entertaining the well to do with his smart ass comments and whacky suits.
      Tosh.O made a joke once that Ginger people are the result of unprotected sex with a clown. Cherry is a miscarriage of justice.

  • MaxwellHowe

    Alex, you certainly have mastered the art of passive aggressive commentary.  I tend to agree with you; in retrospect, in virtually every way, keeping Grabovski and buying out Liles was the better option than signing Bozak.  I’m not a fan of either of the two, but Grabo is a better centre.  And if Nonis had gone that route, right now the Leafs would have no problem signing all their RFAs.

  • LeafsForLife

    Thanks for the mashup Alec. Great job.
    I havent really decided if i like the Bozak signing yet. My biggest issue with him is that he only passes to Kessel. Especially when hes covered and has no chance to retain the puck. If he would just pass to the other wing from time to time i would be a bit happier about it.
    I have always liked Grabo and honestly think he should have been given another year in an offensive role to show his stuff. He would come in motivated and revitalized. But ce la vie hes gone and no turning back now.
    Im hoping we can dump Liles. I liked Liles too but once he got that concussion, he hasnt been the same since. Seems right that he would return to Colorado. I truly think if Fraser is healthy, we must sign him. He was a warrior on the back end and we need that added toughness back there.

    • Marlies Man

      LeafsForLife Bozak tends only to pass to Kessel when he’s been in a prolonged slump and then both suffer attempting bad plays. Be fine if, when a Kessel hasn’t scored for a few games, they just continue to play their game.

  • peterbleafs

    Sign Kadri and Franson to fair deals, Sign Gunnarson only if price is right.  Fraser would be great to have but if he isnt cheap enough he can go.  Colborne should be a fairly easy signing at $1m max.  Go over the cap by a bit and then take all summer to try to make whatever move is necessary.  If it doesnt happen put Liles of waivers and send him the way of Komisarek if need be.  Next year Liles is affordable since the cap will move up.

    • B_Leaf

      peterbleafs 
      If this team starts in the fall with no Frattin, Komarov, MacArthur, Gunnarsson, or Fraser and all we have added is Clarkson and Bolland, plus we have used both buyouts…ugh!

      • B_Leaf

        peterbleafs you can add grabo too

      • leafscapguru

        -Keon- I think the leafs resign all RFA’s if they are over the cap and can’t move JML then they but him out.  They can go over the cap in the off season by a little

      • leafscapguru

        -Keon- I think we forget that 10mil is quite a lot of money and if a player really wants a bigger contract sign a 1 year deal those player that would benefit from a one year contract would be colborne, gunner, and frazer

      • peterbleafs

        leafscapguru-Keon-Will all you people just go to capgeek.com and run the calculator yourself on the Leafs.  We have no cap issues at all FFS.  So many on here just pine about stuff and dont bother looking at the data.  Do the work!

        CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER
        My Custom Lineup
        FORWARDS
        James Van Riemsdyk
        ($4.250m)
        /
        Tyler Bozak
        ($4.200m)
        /
        Phil Kessel
        ($5.400m)
        Joffrey Lupul
        ($5.250m)
        /
        Nazem Kadri
        ($3.500m)
        /
        David Clarkson
        ($5.250m)
        Dave Bolland
        ($3.375m)
        /
        Joe Colborne
        ($1.000m)
        /
        Nikolai Kulemin
        ($2.800m)
        Jerry D’Amigo
        ($1.083m)
        /
        Jay McClement
        ($1.500m)
        /
        Colton Orr
        ($0.925m)
        Frazer McLaren
        ($0.700m)
        /

        DEFENSEMEN
        Dion Phaneuf
        ($6.500m)
        /
        John-Michael Liles
        ($3.875m)
        Jake Gardiner
        ($1.117m)
        /
        Cody Franson
        ($3.000m)
        T.J. Brennan
        ($0.600m)
        /
        Carl Gunnarsson
        ($2.000m)
        Jesse Blacker
        ($0.870m)
        /

        GOALTENDERS
        Jonathan Bernier
        ($2.900m)
        James Reimer
        ($1.800m)
        OTHER
        Buyout:
        Darcy Tucker ($1.000m)

        Buyout:
        Colby Armstrong ($1.000m)

        RETAINED SALARY TRANSACTIONS (0.778% of upper limit)
        Matt Frattin ($0.437m—0.5%)
        Ben Scrivens ($0.062m—0.1%)
        ——
        CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
        (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion)
        SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $64,394,167; BONUSES: $672,500
        CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $578,333

      • peterbleafs

        leafscapguru -Keon- Personally Id trade Gunnarson, sign Fraser, send this TJ Brennan to the Marlies and get a draft pick for Gunnarson IF we cant trade Liles.

      • DWCMLHS

        peterbleafs leafscapguru -Keon- You’re underestimating how much money Gunnar will get for sure, and most likely Franson, too.

      • dlb eh

        peterbleafs leafscapguru -Keon- 
        i agree…except we have to take a look at Brennan first…i think he’s pretty good from what i’ve seen glimpses of

      • Mind Bomb

        peterbleafs leafscapguru -Keon-  Peter you are not getting Gunnar to sign for 2 mil a year to play 1st line minutes

      • dlb eh

        -Keon- 
        wanna bet he stays and Gunnar goes?

  • B_Leaf

    Is there anyone here who is going to address the real issue with Grabovski. It was his health. No one loved the guy more than me, but I think the Leafs must have felt he was not getting better. The guy didn’t forget how to skate, how to check, and how to score. Clearly there was no lack of effort the guy bounces back from anything. But he has lost weight and strength. The Leafs decided to move on…i am pretty sure it was a tough call. If he gets better, some team is going to be very happy. If not the Leafs made the right call.

  • MaxwellHowe

    Interesting that the Leafs right now seem likely to go into the season with only 2 Europeans – Kulimen and Gunnarsson..And either or both of them may be traded before the season begins.

    • leafscapguru

      MaxwellHowe I like the fact the leafs have brought in some local boys, and started drafting Canadian talent.

    • Cameron19

      MaxwellHowe Carlyle tolerated Teemu Selanne, and he liked Sami Pahlsson for a while, but it appears he’s managed to cleanse this roster pretty quickly.

      • Great Dane

        Cameron19 MaxwellHowe Skill is not in high demand

  • http://www.felixvandijk.com/ felixjvd

    I don’t know what the hullabaloo is about Bozak.  He’s a dependable player.  He is excellent on the draw and if he had been available on the draw in the 7th game of the series against the Bruins the outcome may have been very different.

    • dlb eh

      felixjvd 
      i don’t get it either.  i think we got a discount on what he could have signed for somewhere else, but that’s not proven of course.  that said, all UFA contracts pay players more than they are worth, so Bozak did hit the jackpot.
      to me, he still helps us win games more than otherwise.

      • Tommy Cat

        dlb eh felixjvd I’m starting to think that its not just the UFA contracts that get teams in trouble but over paying their own expiring contracts.  With us Komi was a UFA contract but Gabbo’s was of our own making as is Liles.

  • dlb eh

    might have been discussed already, but:
    Cherry was on the fan 590 this morning to “clear the air” about what he said about Bozak
    Cherry says Bozak is a plugger, and he likes pluggers fine.  Cherry says Bozak gets paid too much for a 12 goal scorer.
    Cherry also believes Bozak was in a good spot and had Nonis over a barrel a little bit, where his friendship with Kessel affected the contract.  Cherry believes, as did i when Bozak was signed, that part of the reason they retained Bozak was to give Kessel one more reason to re-sign here.
    i don’t have to go to the 3P website now.

    • wendelsfist

      dlb eh I’m pretty certain people excuse this part of Cherry’s rant as him falling back into a period of senility and so it should be ignored.

      • dlb eh

        wendelsfist dlb eh 
        Some people have good thoughts but can’t put them into pretty words.  I’m happy to let them still speak their minds, and I’ll try hard to read between the lines to understand their meaning.  Anyone who doesn’t afford someone that respect is a douche bag in my humble opinion.

    • Marlies Man

      dlb eh Sure he had 12 goals last year … in a 48 game season. He most likely would have broken 20 goals and 50 points in a full season last year.

  • mcloki

    Alec. Grabo was just the odd man out in this situation. Keeping him meant there was so much less the Leafs could do. They wouldn’t be able to promote anyone and then the dilema become who do you build the team around. Grabo as a core member or Kessel, Lupul as core members. This was just a hard decision that Nonis had to take. It’s a cap world out there. and this was a harsh cap decision. And for me the right one. Grabo wasn’t making Kuli or MacA better players. Bozak at least plays the PK. Now the Leafs have a direction. 
    And I pity the RFA’s and their agents. most of the roster spots are already taken. And their chances at paying jobs just gets smaller and smaller. It’s going to be a capologists summer.

  • wendelsfist

    So we are in the slow days of summer in which we endlessly debate the merit of stats. 
    Advanced stats debate resembles the global warming debate where both sides have created number and fancy math to support their position.  What a clustermuck.

    • jimmyg65

      wendelsfist The difference being that there is no real debate about climate change any more. On one side you have 97% of actual scientific experts with impeccable research agreeing that climate change is real and caused by humans, on the other people who believe the world was created 6000 years or are paid by the energy sector.

      • Biltmore

        jimmyg65 wendelsfist 
        I notice how global warming became climate change once the science couldn’t confirm long term global warming. Of course, the planet has been going through cycles of climate change since the day it started spinning. The whole notion of climate change as an ecology issue is simply a matter of governments finding a way to tax the air… hence carbon credits.

      • wendelsfist

        jimmyg65 wendelsfist   A bit trivial of a statement as there is science on both sides of the issues.   There are peer reviewed articles on both sides of the issue.  And why is the 97% conscensus correct?   At one time “science” thought the earth was flat and sun revolved around the earth.  
        The point being that both sides have shown to be guilty of  exaggerrating their data for specific agendas  That said, there are some very good climatalogist and there are some very good advanced stats folks.  And then there those that are not good it either.

        • jimmyg65

          wendelsfist jimmyg65 Okay, so let’s keep twiddling our thumbs while the glaciers melt and the oceans rise and large parts of the planet become uninhabitable because scientists, who had no instruments for measuring climate and the orbits of the planets, made mistakes in the past. Let’s pretend the last 500 years of scientific progress didn’t happen. Great argument. And as for the debunked “cycles of climate change” argument: there has not been a period in history since when there was so much carbon in the atmosphere for the last 3 million years. THat’s one hell of a blip in the cycle.
          For those who want to live in a fact-based universe, this is a thorough debunking of the fake science behind climate change denial: http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/12-02-08/#feature

        • wendelsfist

          jimmyg65 wendelsfist You miss the point I’m making.  I’m not denying climate change.  I’m saying that both parties have at times exagerrated climate change data.  That said, in the last few years the pro- side has cleaned up its data set.  And the anti-side has been showed to doctor its data as well.

    • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

      wendelsfist Everyone listen up.  We are not killing the planet, our natural way of using resources to survive is making life difficult for us.  Sure, had humankind decided to go green from day one of our existence, what we are starting to see would have been delayed, but just delayed.
      We shed skin for new skin, and so is planet earth.  The planet will be fine.  The difference between us and the dinosaurs is, humans can think, and invent and explore, so I believe, we will survive as a species, 
      I have no advanced stats to back up this claim 😉

  • wendelsfist

    In hockey news and I’m not sure what these means to the leafs,
    July 10: Deadline for Player-Elected Salary Arbitration Notification, and Deadline for RFA Offer Sheets for First Club-Elected Salary Arbitration (5:00 pm NY time)July 11: Deadline for Second Club-Elected Salary Arbitration Notification

  • Dink

    Get the RFA’s signed, then worry about the cap…

    • MaxwellHowe

      @Dink I’m with you on that.

  • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

    http://www.lfpress.com/2013/07/09/big-american-michael-mccarron-expected-to-pick-knights-over-ncaa
    Knights fans here will be happy…but conflicted LOL

    • leafmealone

      ingy56 London also had Jarred Tinordi as the captain in the first of their back-to-back Mem Cup appearances in the year after he was drafted by Montreal. No big deal. Love him while he plays in London, and hate him the first time he suits up for the Habs.

      • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

        leafmealone ingy56 Exactly.

  • dlb eh

    couple RFAs signed yesterday.  do any set the market for ours?

    • wendelsfist

      dlb eh Mcdonaugh 6 years at 4.7M is the ceiling for Gunnar but we should get him for less. 
      Leddy  2yr/2.7M and Spurgeon 3 year at 2.7M is more reasonable comparison for franson /gardiner.  There is Voynov as well. 

      On the forwards Clutterbuck 4 yr at 2.8M is too high for Colborne.  And Kadri can be anything (gagner was 3.2 and Duchene was 2+M).  .

      • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

        wendelsfist dlb eh They bought some UFA seasons from McDonaugh though. I doubt Nonis will try that with Gunnar this time around.

      • Greg Fenton

        wendelsfist dlb eh Leddy and Spurgeon don’t set the market for Franson, he’ll be looking for money similar to McDonaugh’s.

        • wendelsfist

          Greg Fenton wendelsfist dlb eh I didn’t look at TOI, but my thinking was Franson played similar minutes to those too.  And he might use Voynov as an example of a high producing dman with lower TOI

  • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

    -Keon- Norris winning defenceman turned into a center. Name a coach who’d have the stones to try that these days.

  • Cameron19

    Gilbey93 I think Granberg might have shot himself up to near the top of our prospects chart.  But we shall see.  Just get the sense that the organization thinks they have a real sleeper there…

  • mcloki

    Who is Trevor Smith? and when did we sign him?

    • mcloki

      Is he just a Marlie? I see him on Capgeek and wonder WTF?

      • Cameron19

        mcloki  Signed to be a center for the Marlies.  Led Pittsburgh’s farm team last year.  The Marlies were really depleted at center…

        • mcloki

          Cameron19 mcloki I just see him on the Leafs roster and thought I missed something. He’s only making 500K. ANyways that’s an extra half mil on the cap. I think we just squeeze in under the cap this year. But barely.

        • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

          mcloki Cameron19 It’s because it’s a one-way deal, same as Holzer.

        • Cameron19

          mcloki Cameron19 He’ll get waived at the start of the season.  He’s just on a one-way deal to make it annoying for teams to claim him, so we don’t lose him like we did Aucoin.

        • mcloki

          Cameron19 mcloki Thanks for the explanation.

    • dlb eh

      mcloki 
      he sounds like a Hamilton type player to me

  • Dink

    Wish Grabovski all the best but he is an ex-Leaf now. 
    Looking at our forward group, it looks more and more formidable  to me every day…
    It is gonna be a fun team to watch.

  • wendelsfist

    LN-093 At this point everything becomes speculative. Maybe Grabbo didn’t mesh with the team and hung off to the side with Kulemin ? Or maybe Carlyle had hate on Grabbo and forced him out.  And cap coming down was a factor as I think they would have kept Grabbo if they could spend more freely.   Understanding this problem is more complex in my view then a box car stat.

  • jcg_4

    I don’t get why people think that Grabo has more talent than Bozak. In my mind Bozak has greater hockey sense, is defensively responsible without making an issue about it, scores almost at will on the shoot out and judging from the comments made by Grabo on the way out, is more in line with the way the coach wants to play the game. You have to know that if Grabo felt comfortable making those comments to TSN on the way out, he was shooting his mouth off to his buddies on the team all last year…I liked Grabo’s compete level but I don’t like that he put himself ahead of the team.

    • NotInsane

      LN-093 jcg_4
      Bozak’s got some sweet hands in close; he can finish off scoring plays when he’s setup or sent in on a breakaway.  More importantly, he’s tough enough to win important draws on the PK and at the end of the game.  Something not in Grabo’s toolbox.   Bozak was cheaper, too.   Its no surprise the Leafs chose flawed player Bozak over flawed player Grabo.  
      If Grabo nets +60pts next year I’m still fine with this trade-off

  • GeorgeCastanza

    Was Morgan Rielly the runner-up to 21 yr old Brenden Kichton for WHL defenceman-of-the-year award?

  • MaxwellHowe

    Gilbey93 If you could only hurry up and edit in Broll before phook gets back from Prospect Camp. And he will be gushing about Broll.

  • http://i.imgur.com/MyKj5C3.gif ingy56

    http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/10/justin-bieber-urinates-in-mop-bucket
    Good thing he didn’t have to piss when he was near the Cup, fucking tool. Still pissed about that….pardon the pun.

  • Bobsyouruncle

    hoolihan wrote:  “Grabovski is probably a better winger than he is a centre. He isn’t really a playmaker.”   
    Disagree with Bozniak being a far better option than Grabovski. Mr Playmaker (Bozniak) had 5 (lol) primary assists on Kessel’s 20 goals this year and zero (let that sink in a bit – ZERO) with JVR who does not have hands of stone.   
    Compare that to the player who “isn’t really a playmaker” in his 29 goal, 58 point season.   
    Grabovski had 19 primary assists out of a total of 29.  7 primary assists on MacArthur’s 21 goals and 9 primary assists on Kulemin’s 30 goals while scoring 29 goals himself, something Bozniak will never accomplish.  
    This is a much stronger case for seeing Grabovski as a player who can distribute the puck than anything Bozniak has done with better players at his side.

    • wiski

      Bobsyouruncle How come you didn’t use the same year I wonder?

      • Cameron19

        wiski Bobsyouruncle Well, Grabo was in the same role as Gaustad this year.  Would you evaluate Gaustad based on his primary assists? Doesn’t it make sense to use a year where he was in a scoring position?

        • wiski

          Cameron19 wiski Bobsyouruncle why not use Bozaks numbers when Lupul and Kessel were both in the top ten in scoring

        • Cameron19

          wiski Cameron19 Bobsyouruncle Yea, sure.  I think if you use their best years Grabo still comes out ahead.  

          Having said that, I thought Bozak played his best hockey at the start of this season, when Kessel couldn’t score to save his life. How many posts and crossbars did he hit those first 15 games or so?

        • wiski

          Cameron19 wiski Bobsyouruncle If posts and crossbars were worth half a puck we would be golden. 😉

      • Bobsyouruncle

        wiski Bobsyouruncle Wonder no more. There is no year in which Bozniak was placed in a totally defensive role to compare  with Grabs. If the question was is Grabovski a playmaker then at least one should look at a season in which he was placed in a position to be that. (yet still not having the Quality of linemate that Blowsak gets.) But you already new that, didn’t you.  lol  Because after all it’s only common sense.

    • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

      Bobsyouruncle Fluke, Mac and Kuli had everything go right that year, and nothing since.

    • leafscapguru

      Bobsyouruncle Grabo sucks period!! 2 coaches couldn’t use him on the top line so stop blaming Randy for Grabo’s lack of skill or leadership. Go back to PPP

      • Bobsyouruncle

        leafscapguru Bobsyouruncle Coach Idiot is an idiot. nuff said

        • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

          Bobsyouruncle leafscapguruhttps://twitter.com/Dudgeehttps://twitter.com/Dudgee/status/354972101456822274
          FYI: Grabovsky has no contract, day 6.

        • wiski

          Radar O’Rielly Bobsyouruncle leafscapguru And was affectionately known as the human zamboni

        • leafscapguru

          Bobsyouruncle leafscapguru oh yes the first coach to get us into the playoffs in how many years but he’s an idiot. lol Your so closed minded, Bozak is cheaper than Grabo, better off the face off, better on the PK, and better in the locker room.  They guy has faced top line guys and battled to stay in a position that yes is bigger than his role should be ,BUT in how many years was he in that role, and how many times did Grabo take his place? Grabo got beat out of his duties by Kadri not Bozak end of story. So happy that Grabo is gone, he wasn’t worth the money

        • Bobsyouruncle

          Radar O’Rielly Bobsyouruncle leafscapguru Have you stopped to consider the position Grabovski was placed in by the timing of his buyout.   
          I’m not going to explain the obvious disadvantages he will face in getting a good contract with the late start he faces. (Lecavalier already signed July 2nd, Briere signed July 4th. Grabovski not even finding out he was getting bought out until the afternoon of July 4th or clearing waivers until July 5th when most UFA’s and compliance buyouts already had deals in place thereby making the options less.) I think you’re smart enough to figure that out.

        • wiski

          Bobsyouruncle They way he was let go was bullshit, the day before he was getting married too boot.

        • leafscapguru

          Bobsyouruncle Radar O’Rielly leafscapguru guess your not smart enough to figure out that no one claimed him off waivers (so not only Nonis thought he was over paid) Grabo had some health issues (maybe they will continue, we really don’t know that answer) grabo wants a big paycheck and no GM wants to give one out.  He’s is a good player I do like the guy but he wasn’t winning us the Stanley cup, Bozak can slide into a 2C role at anytime and is a very moveable piece in the future.

        • leafscapguru

          wiski Bobsyouruncle wasn’t Nosis’ fault for the last day of buyouts

        • Mind Bomb

          wiski Bobsyouruncle Grabo got Screwed 
          Bottom Line !

        • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

          Mind Bomb wiski Bobsyouruncle 1.7 mil a year for the next 8 years plus what he gets in a new contract here or the KHL.  Thats the kinda screwing I want too!

        • Bobsyouruncle

          leafscapguru Bobsyouruncle Yeah great. Coach Idiot he’s our man. Used 10 shooters in a shoot-out and no use of Grabovski. Tons of people complained about that and more of Coach Idiot’s choices this year.    
          Carlyle’s explanation after the Game 7 collapse?  “We were gassed” Well gee Coach Idiot why didn’t you use your time-out.    
          And Kadri gets the primary assist on a Kessel goal and Kadri scores from Kessel in the first 5 minutes of the 3rd period to go up 4-1. Then Kadri gets 3 shifts (2:11min.) the last 15 minutes of the period and doesn’t see the ice for the last 5:30 minutes of the 3rd. ( Less than 14:00TOI in the game) But we lost the game because we were gassed? Thanks again Coach Idiot.

        • leafscapguru

          Mind Bomb wiski Bobsyouruncle Grabo’s agent screwed Grabo by demanding a big paycheck. this was business and collecting 2/3rd’s of it by not even playing… im sorry if that’s getting screwed I’ll take those checks and he can have mine

        • Bobsyouruncle

          Radar O’Rielly Mind Bomb wiski Bobsyouruncle But not really?

        • wiski

          Bobsyouruncle Throw Kadri out to slow down Lucic Horton and Chara? Carlyle has the pieces for the job this year, last year he didn’t.

        • Mind Bomb

          Radar O’Rielly Mind Bomb wiski Bobsyouruncle Haha Radar true, I would still be pissed though.  That is less money than I agreed to, and I wanted to play for the Leafs

        • Mind Bomb

          leafscapguru Mind Bomb wiski Bobsyouruncle You dont have his talent with all due respect. Grabo’s agent did not screw him, he did well for him, it was RC and Nonis who did not live up to their commitments. 
           When you give your heart to something, like grabo did the leafs, you commit long term, then they reject you and blindside dump you, at the time your going through the Happiest time of your life getting married ( supposedly :)

          I am pissed

  • wiski

    https://twitter.com/WolfpackAlanhttps://twitter.com/WolfpackAlan/status/354968133611687938
    The only honest people in this world are small children and drunk people.

    • Marlies Man

      wiski Haha, a lot of truth in that statement.

  • Greg Fenton

    Neither Bozak or Grabovski are real, legit #1 centers. With Kadri, Bolland and McClement, the #1 spot is the only spot that needs to be filled at this point. 
    There are 3 things that make Bozak the better choice given the sitatuion the Lefs are in 1) He is 1.3 million dollars cheaper. 2) He has shown that he can play with well with Kessel who will be their #1 winger for at least one more season. Grabovski MIGHT have played great with Kessel, but he also might not have. 3) If/when they find a legit #1 center to take that spot and play that role Bozak’s game translates better to a depth position. He is better at face-offs and even if you think Grabovski is better defensively, Carlyle used Bozak more on the PK, which would indicate he trusts Bozak’s defensive play more. 
    Oh,and it appears the coach liked him better, which is a pretty big factor as well.

    • wendelsfist

      Greg Fenton I reject all your reasons because of “math” (but the real reason is I can’t stand Blozak’s hair and Grabbo is pineapple slayer)

      • Greg Fenton

        wendelsfist Greg Fenton In what world is Bozak’s 4.2 million higher then Grabovskis 5.5, chemistry with Kessel measured by math, or Bozak’s face off % ever lower then Grabovski’s?

        • wendelsfist

          Greg Fenton wendelsfist I need a sarcasm font.  I reject the Grabbo vs Bozak argument because it is more a question are the 4 C on the team better then last year 4C.  And even more generally is the team Nonis put together more competitive or less then last year.

        • Greg Fenton

          wendelsfist Greg Fenton fair enough. 
          Honestly, I’d say this group is probably about the same all things considered.

      • wendelsfist

        Greg Fenton BTW and to make a point that we can slice and dice these stats any way you want to support your specific agenda.   For example, if you look at Corsi for Kessel and Bozak in the 2012 season, it is higher then Corsi for Kessel and Grabbo together.  Therefore Bozak is the “better” center for Kessel.

    • MaxwellHowe

      Greg Fenton I was never impressed with Bozie or Grabo, but Bozak may be capable of improving his play.  He has better hands around the net than Grabo. But I don’t think Bozak is particularly skilled defensively. I saw him screw up coverage of the opposing centre plenty of times last season.

      • Greg Fenton

        MaxwellHowe Greg Fenton So did Grabovski.

    • Tommy Cat

      Greg Fenton Kadri will be our number one center.  Maybe not this year but next for sure.  Bozak then slips to 2 and Bolland 3.

      • Greg Fenton

        Tommy Cat Greg Fenton Maybe, if he shows he can/should have/handle that job. 
        As I’ve said, I think Kadri is a 1.5 line player.

        • Tommy Cat

          Greg Fenton Tommy Cat To me Kadri showed so real sweet passing ability last year.  He’ll be Phil’s set up man in time for sure.  More older, more mature, stronger and just as nasty.  I think he’s the real deal and I’m as excited as fuck to watch him develop into our 1C and one of the best in the league.

        • Greg Fenton

          Tommy Cat Greg Fenton I hope you’re right, but don’t hold your breath.

      • MaxwellHowe

        Tommy Cat Greg Fenton Porblem is, Bozak’s “chemistry” with Kessel has apparently ensured the two play together.  If you want to designate Kadri the first line centre, that probably means you also designate Kessl the second line right winger.

        • Greg Fenton

          MaxwellHowe Tommy Cat Greg Fenton Maybe. Who is to say Kadri and Kessel don’t play great together? Both will be with the team for the next 4-5 years, no harm in trying Kadri with Kessel if/when he shows he should be be givena shot as the #1 guy, as opposed to this situation were they’d have to let Bozak go to give Grabovski a shot and if it didnt work……

        • MaxwellHowe

          Greg Fenton MaxwellHowe Tommy Cat I completely agree.  Kadri and Kessel should be tried together.  Carlyle does seem reluctant to put anyoine with Kessel but Bozak though – that was my point.  Interestingly, if Bozak is not with Kessel, perhaps he does slot in at #3.

        • Tommy Cat

          MaxwellHowe Tommy Cat Greg Fenton When Kessel signs long term Bozie can find chemistry on the seond line.  No way he’s still 1C if Kadri caontinues to develop into full potential.  There’s more skill in his little finger then Bozie’s whole body

        • Greg Fenton

          MaxwellHowe Greg Fenton Tommy Cat He also might just be waiting until Kadri shows he is ready for it.

        • Greg Fenton

          Tommy Cat MaxwellHowe Greg Fenton If he signs long term, but thats a whole other issue. 
          I’m not saying they will keep Bozak with Kessel if Kadri gets better and better, I’m not sure Kadri will continue to get better and better. 
          When he was drafted and during the 3-4 years (whatever it was) tha the was in the system, no scouting report or anything that I saw ever said he had a legit, #1 center, one of the best in the league (so as good as Crosby, Malkin, Stamkos, Toews, Tavares – the other bests int he league). More liked a guy who can play on the top line, probably a really good 2nd liner. 
          I just found out long ago that expecting a player to exceed expectations…….really only sets you up for disapointment.

        • Tommy Cat

          Greg Fenton Tommy Cat MaxwellHowe If all the long term scouting reports on 17 and 18 year old players were always accurate you wouldn’t see first line players ever come out of the second round.

        • Greg Fenton

          Tommy Cat Greg Fenton MaxwellHowe I didn’t say it never happens or can’t happen or won’t – just that no one should expect it too.

        • Tommy Cat

          Greg Fenton Tommy Cat MaxwellHowe Gotta have hope Greg.  I think the kid is the real deal.

        • Greg Fenton

          Tommy Cat Greg Fenton MaxwellHowe Kadri looks like a pretty good #2 center. That may be enough to make him the Leafs #1 center, if they can’t find a legit #1 center. 
          But to expecting him to become one of the best centers in the league…….

    • Jordan29

      Your totally rejecting the fact we don’t have a fucking top line. We have 2equal top 6 lines where all 6 players are perfect for their roles. Why can you not get that through your head?

      • Greg Fenton

        Jordan29 They do have a top line, you jsut refuse to accept it because you like this idea of not having one for some reason. Ther eis a reason Kessel, van Riemsdyk and Bozak played 1-2 minutes more per game (even strength) then any other forward last year. Its because they are the #1 line.

        • Jordan29

          Oh Ok so dandy Carlyle the coach is lying when he says it, and so is the GM Nonis. Got ya. Makes sense

        • Greg Fenton

          Jordan29 Got a link to what he said? I’d just like to see it. 
          And he can call the McLaren-McClement-Orr line his #1 line, if he plays van Riemsdyk-Bozak-Kessel more then anyother line…….thats his #1 line.

        • Jordan29

          I’m at.work. It’s easy to find though he’s said it many times. He builds the lines on a top 6 bottom 6 way and keeps of them together and rotates a winger. Bozak-Kessel and Lupul-Kadri. I almost think your just looking for things to wah about because your bored. If you want to complain about the leafs go somewhere else. Many of us don’t care to hear it

        • Greg Fenton

          Jordan29 and the top 6 has a #1 and #2 line, and the bottom has the #3 and #4. There is a reason Kessel’s line (including van Riemsdyk) played 2-3 minutes more of even strength ice time a game.

        • Greg Fenton

          Jordan29 The only thing I could find on goggle was an article on this site which said Carlyle rules a #1 line, a shut down line, a scoring line, and an energy line (going from most minutes to least), and that would be backed up by the forwards and how much ice-time they got last year (very similar to what Pat Burns ran in 1993). Kessel, Bozak, van Riemsdyk getting the most ice-time, followed by Kulemin and Grabovski, then Kadri and Lupul.  
          So ya, it would appear that the Leafs do have a #1 line.

      • Greg Fenton

        Jordan29 My guess is by claiming they dont have a number 1 line you don’t have to accept that the Leafs need a #1 center but can instead say things “their players are perfect for their roles”.

        • Jordan29

          WAH

  • wiski

    https://twitter.com/ovi8https://twitter.com/ovi8/status/354920453812387840
    Good luck gr8 players in new teams. https://twitter.com/ribz9 and https://twitter.com/MattHendy26 !! Caps fans gonna miss u!!!

  • NotInsane

    Cam Charron compares different wingers goals/points scored playing with Bozak and Grabovski over the past three years.  Great.  Grabo wins hands down.  Problem?  
    1)  New coaching style at the beginning of 2013 (or end of 2012) created what is known as a “regime shift”.  ie the goals/pts under RW aren’t compareable to the goals under Carlyle since players are potentially in new roles and new systems.
    2)  Bozak is improving year over year while Grabo’s numbers declined in 2013.  Using a three-year average doesn’t capture this.
    3) Since Kessel isn’t great defensively and Lupul (according to Charron) is so bad defensively it outweights his scoring (!!!!!). Maybe Bozak is a “plugger” who had to cover for these two and hence wasn’t as involved offensively.
    4)  Bozak often takes a draw in the defensive zone (or PK) and skates off (as soon as he can but it can be a while if he losses the draw on the PK).  This may increase ATOI without offensive opportunity.  
    We can debate some of these arguments but that’s the point.  We could drive a truck through the holes in Charron’s statistical analysis.  There’s nothing definitive here.  Pts/ATOI tells me Bozak isn’t the greatest but it doesn’t tell me he is the “Terrible Tyler Bozak”.  Its not stats that are a problem; its the conclusions drawn.

    • Area49th

      NotInsane This year’s product has not hit the ice yet. I watch a lot of hockey and I don’t know how the team can be worse. Too many people see the glass half empty

      • NotInsane

        Area49th
        For sure, that is true.  Cam Charron is trying to show he’s right and deserves a MSM job.  My post argues with him on his level: statistical analysis.

        • wendelsfist

          NotInsane Area49th Agreed here.  A college peer review would reject this on the grounds of poor statistical methodolgy (confirmation bias).   And an newpaper either would make this piece an editorial rather then a “report” or force a rewrite.

        • NotInsane

          wendelsfist NotInsane Area49th 
          Thanks Wendelsfist.  I’m tired of this guy being being implicitly believed when his analysis is quite weak.

    • MaxwellHowe

      NotInsane I think Lupul is certainly below average defensively – but part of that may be attributed to the fact he plays his off wing – something I gather Carlyle hates but has decided to live with.

      • NotInsane

        MaxwellHowe
        Didn’t mean to argue he was good defensively.  I was shocked Charron concluded Lupul was not worth of being a good player because his defence was so bad.  Charron gave no evidence or cited earlier work, just stated it as a fact.

    • DWCMLHS

      Grabo’s numbers only fell this season because of the role he was in. He’s not declining as a player. Zone starts have a dramatic effect on production. And he often had to play with McClement and Komarov. He scored 58 points in 10/11, and at a almost equal 56-point pace in 11/12, despite Kulemin dragging his line down. Those are numbers he put up in a 2nd-line/2nd-PP scoring role. Bozak hasn’t hit 50 points on the 1st-line/1st-PP. he’s good for about 30 less points than Kessel over a full season. That’s remarkable, given they play on the same line. Grabo is better at everything but face-offs, and his better production with worse linemates and less minutes reflects this, as do his possession stats.

      • peterbleafs

        DWCMLHS In a season where his one hit wonder Kulemin got 30.  I wanted Kulemen traded that year as well as Grabo because I always thought they were both one hit wonders.

        • DWCMLHS

          58 points in 10/11 while Kuli had inflated numbers. A 56-point pace in 11/12 while Kuli had deflated numbers. Grabo’s production in 11/12 is even more impressive than his 10/11numbers.

      • wendelsfist

        DWCMLHS Grabbo couldn’t outproduce Mclemment who was in a similar role and faced harder zone starts or more difficult usage.

      • NotInsane

        DWCMLHS
        “Grabo’s numbers only fell this season because of the role he was in”
        is a counter-factual statement we can never prove.  He had stomach problems and did not score after Bozak was injured in the playoffs.  We dont need 82 game sample sizes if we watch games.

        • DWCMLHS

          Even if he had just had a down year, one bad season after four good ones isn’t enough to fairly write a guy off. If he gets to play in a top-6 scoring role on another team this upcoming season, he’ll likely be awesome again. A great 2-way player who can score 50+ points.

        • NotInsane

          DWCMLHS 
          I disagree.  Sports is a vicious business.  One bad year and you lose job security.  Morality doesn’t play into it.  Grabo makes lots of money; he is no victim.
          I’d love to see Grabo net 60 pts next year (as long as he is in another divisino!).  It doesn’t matter to me because I just stopped believing he’s a good fit here.  He’s a fun, spirited, competitive guy.

        • leafscapguru

          Yaknowwhat DWCMLHS because he not worth 5.5 mil

        • leafscapguru

          LN-093 Yaknowwhat DWCMLHS hmmmm
          krejci 5.2 mil or grabo 5.5, lupul 5.2mil or grabo 5.5, Horton 5.3 mil or grabo 5.5, kessel 5.4 mil or grabo 5.5, boby ryan 5.1 mil or grabo 5.5, Tavares 5.5mil or grabo 5.5,  these points alone tell you that Grabo was wayyyyyy over paid and the reason why he was bought out!  And if you tell me that any of these guys are not better than Grabo, then your on drugs!

        • NotInsane

          leafscapguru
          Wow, now those stats speak volumes

        • leafscapguru

          NotInsane leafscapguru funny that no Grabo lovers has a comeback to my last comment

        • NotInsane

          leafscapguru
          they’ll wait until he signs for 3m then compare him to players making 3m.  
          “Your out of your depth, Donnie!”

        • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

          leafscapguru LN-093 Yaknowwhat DWCMLHS 
          Best argument EVER!

        • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

          NotInsane leafscapguru Those aren’t stats, those are facts!

    • Mike Bosse

      NotInsane watch a lot of games with Bozak and he skates like he’s got lead tied to his ass, because of the lack of a replacement we’re sorrily stuck with this poor excuse for a 1C.

  • NotInsane

    Yaknowwhat 
    I agree.  Grabo is “meh” to me.  I want someone better.  Do I want someone better than Bozak? Hell Yes!  But I can live with Bozak for reasons many posters have put up today.  Kessel does well with him, wins draws, thinks Grabo did not

    • DWCMLHS

      Kessel scores at a faster rate away from Bozak than with him. This has been well-documented. Bozak drags down Kessel.

      • NotInsane

        DWCMLHS 
        Yes a link would be great. I find this a questionable statement of fact.

      • wendelsfist

        DWCMLHS This is arguable.  Looking at last season, Kessel with Bozak have a better shot differential # then Kessel with Grabovski.

      • DWCMLHS

        The Cam Charron article second from the top of the links is just one of many.

      • wendelsfist

        DWCMLHS His article has already debunked. Now his conclusion maybe valid but his methodology is bunk.

      • NotInsane

        DWCMLHS
        that article is not a document. See my post below.

  • DWCMLHS

    Hahahahaha. It’s happening again. A player is no longer a Leaf, so people are starting to shit all over him. Holy shit.

    • MaxwellHowe

      DWCMLHS Thats not fair.  He was shit on plenty before the buy out.

      • NotInsane

        MaxwellHowe DWCMLHS 
        DWCMLHS, Grabo is meh at 5.5m. He wasn’t allowed to play his normal natural style; anyone would perform worse in that position.  There’s no shitting on him.  Its just better he moves on. In the NHL, players come and go.  Its just business.

    • leafscapguru

      DWCMLHS I wish Grabo well, but I would rather have Bolland at the 3C than Grabo, Bozak comes in cheaper than Grabo which can move to a 2C at a reasonable price for a 2C and Kadri can hopefully be our 1C. we have better options with bozak and Kardi than Grabo and Kadri. IMO

    • GeorgeCastanza

      DWCMLHS MacArthur, Grabo, and Bozak  were the 3 names most mentioned on this site last season for trade or buyout if I recall correctly.

    • Mike Bosse

      DWCMLHS Been watching Bozak drag his ass for the last 3-4 years and he’s got to go…..we’re talking a mediocre 3rd liner at best. I would love to see Bolland play an expanded role and take over the Bozak spot ….moving Bozo to 3rd or 4th line duty….BUT THEN HE”D BE OVERPAID lmao!

  • peterbleafs

    Yaknowwhat Totally logical.  I hope your post is the final word and Grabo whiners stfu.   He’s gone, he isn’t wanted anywhere else…no one got him on waivers for free…no one would trade for him……gonzo..

    • Mike Bosse

      Yaknowwhatpeterbleafs you really believe that! Why pick him off waivers at 5.5 wait till he’s bought out and pick him up for 2.5, he’s not alone out there looking for a team and a fit. Hell bounce back
      Jaromir Jagr and Brenden Morrow and goaltender Tim Thomas among many more, you’ll see teams take their time now adding the final few pieces….waiting to see if they can pick up someone who’s team walked away from arbitration, once arbitration is done teams will fill out remaining spots……happens every year, because of the lower cap this process could take a bit longer.

  • wiski

    https://twitter.com/Matt_Frattinhttps://twitter.com/Matt_Frattin/status/354975815521419264
    “https://twitter.com/Bradm14: Without a doubt the nicest arena I have ever stepped foot in. https://twitter.com/search?q=%23palace&src=hash http://t.co/bqfeukPQ1T” amen to that https://twitter.com/search?q=%23fightingsioux&src=hash

  • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

    You have to wonder how Grabos end of season exit interview went? Probably had a lot to do with how this went down.

    • NotInsane

      Radar O’Rielly 
      Agreed.  He wasn’t happy with his role on the ice although he seems happy living in Toronto.

    • DWCMLHS

      Carlyle is easier to replace than Grabo. And Grabo did play the role Carlyle asked of him, he just shouldn’t have had to play that role, that’s why he exploded when he got bought-out.

      • ConnorCrisp

        DWCMLHS it will be neat to see how much/long he signs for if/when he is plucked from UFA

      • wendelsfist

        DWCMLHS What makes you certain this was Carlyle vs Grabbo.  Imo, if there was no cap falling Grabbo would still be on the team.

      • DWCMLHS

        He isn’t meant to play a pure shut-down role, he should be in a top-6 scoring role, scoring 50+ points and being a beast at driving possession, like he did two seasons in a row.

      • DWCMLHS

        There are a multitude of reasonable explanations for Grabo clearing waivers.
        – Teams were already talking to UFAs when he got waived, so some likely knew they already had a center on the way.
        – His phone interview may have scared a couple teams off.
        – Some teams simply cannot afford $5.5 million.
        – Out own coach and GM don’t understand how much his role impacted his production (judging by interviews with Nonis, and Carlyle having called out Grabo’s lack of production at least a couple times this season, despite the fact that he put him in a position he couldn’t possibly maintain his offensive success in). Maybe other teams don’t realize how badly he was buried in the D-zone by Carlyle this season, either. His contract doesn’t look good if you’re judging it based solely on box score stats.

      • Jay_Berg

        Grabo cleared waivers because he makes more money than he’s worth. Thats it, It’s really that simple.

      • NotInsane

        Jay_Berg 
        haha, well said Jay Berg

  • Area49th

    Yaknowwhat In a nutshell. I liked Grabovski as well, but the cap makes us choose  between loyalty and what we can afford. Still lots of work ahead

    • NotInsane

      Area49th
      For sure, Area49.  Lots of work ahead.

  • Marlies Man

    I dub this summer “The Great Grabovski Schism”.

    • NotInsane

      Marlies Man 
      haha, great name.  I hope this is a sign the Leafs are a better team entering a new era.  An era when we have to let good players go because of the salaray cap.  Just like the big boys!  Detroit, Chicago, Boston

    • http://mapleleafshotstove.com/ Radar O’Rielly

      Marlies Man If Grabo were green, he would look like the Great Gazoo.

  • Pent_House

    This one is going to get beaten to death jeeez. It’s already over, can’t go back in time to change it. You should just hope that all our players improve and have a good season at this point.