On the 100% Hockey Podcast, MLSE CEO and President Keith Pelley discussed the challenges of his job, the difficulty of parting ways with Brendan Shanahan, his working relationship with Brad Treliving, the changes ahead this offseason, and much more.
It was an eventful week. Have you digested everything that has happened around the Toronto Maple Leafs?
Pelley: Yeah, I’ve digested it, for sure. It was a busy week, no question, but when you are operating this many teams and an organization the size of MLSE, I kind of knew what I was getting myself into when I came back from Europe. I’ve digested it, but these decisions are never easy, and it is not something that I really cherish doing, for obvious reasons.
How difficult was last Thursday’s decision to part ways with Brendan Shanahan?
Pelley: From a personal level, it was very difficult. From a professional level, it was the right decision to make. I have worked so closely with Brendan. I have a ton of time for him. He is a man of great integrity. He has rebuilt the franchise, if you go back and take a look at it prior to him coming in, to where we are now and how many playoffs we’ve made, and competing at the level we have.
It was difficult on a personal level. It was easier from a professional level. The challenge is always separating them. That is where the difficulty comes in.
Would the decision have been different if the team had made it to the third round?
Pelley: I don’t speculate on hypothetical situations. That is not what happened. Unfortunately, in Brendan’s 11 years, we didn’t get to a Conference Final. We all know that when we get into the world of sport — different than the world of media — it is about results.
I remember having this conversation sometime ago with Brian Burke when I was running Rogers Media and he was running the Toronto Maple Leafs. “We have pressure jobs, Brian, but we have completely different jobs because yours are so tangible in terms of the success. Yours are about wins and losses, staying inside the cap, and dealing with the media in terms of the reputation of the brand for the organization. They are very, very tangible.”
That is what this is. This is a results business. This is about wins and losses. The minute you get into sport, and even in my role here, it is about wins and losses and running the business efficiently. That is it. That is how I will be judged by our owners. That is the way it is for General Managers and coaches. I think they all know that going in.
Brendan is a professional. He would’ve liked to have stayed and continued because he thinks we are on the right track. At the end of the day, the results are the results.
Why did you think the third round accomplishment didn’t happen? Is there a particular area that fell short?
Pelley: You are probably better to answer that question than I. You guys probably look at the stats closer than we do. [Florida] had 60% of the offensive-zone possession through the series, and they are a very, very good hockey club. That would be a better question to ask Brad (Treliving) or [Craig Berube], but you and I watched the same series. I could turn around and ask the question.
Beyond the stats, the team seemed to really feel the weight of the critical moments.
Pelley: It would be a better question for the players and coaches, but I would say we made strides this year. There is no question that bringing in Craig Berube was a move that changed the hockey club. Brad and I have discussed this and the moves he made to bring in guys like Chris Tanev, guys like OEL, guys like Anthony Stolarz, and guys like Steven Lorentz. It changed the makeup of the hockey club.
The combination of Brad and Craig Berube changed the makeup of the hockey club. Hopefully, they will build on that. I have the utmost confidence in both of them. I have spent a lot of time with them over the last 48 hours.
Sports aren’t easy. It is about winning. Every league is different as far as the salary cap and tax levels and so forth, but the competitive balance in the NHL with an $88 million salary cap provides exactly that: competitive balance. The Atlantic Division is a tough division to come out on top. We came out on top of the Atlantic Division, but unfortunately, we just didn’t get to the next level.
You mentioned in your press conference that you would have dinner with Brad Treliving this past Sunday night. How deep did the conversations go with Brad? Was it a more superficial discussion to say, “We have to work together in the future?”
Pelley: I don’t think anything is ever a superficial discussion. The discussion and the conversation are private and confidential, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for Brad and Craig. I would characterize the conversation as having very little small talk.
How differently do you view the managerial style without Brendan Shanahan in the room compared to only Brad Treliving?
Pelley: A lot has been made of that. If you study different organizations and different leagues, there is not a right and a wrong way to do it. Every organization has a different structure. Every organization has different titles — different titles at the top, different titles in middle management and senior management, and different roles and responsibilities.
I see the only fundamental difference as, from a hockey perspective, this will be Brad’s team.
Will the title of President of Hockey Operations go to the side for a while?
Pelley: I don’t think there is anything that is emphatically set in stone. I have said that internally and externally. Once again, you are talking about a title. Some organizations have Chief Revenue Officers. Some have Executive VP of Sales. I have never been one to focus on titles. I have been one to focus on responsibilities, and what the definition of success those responsibilities and those titles bring.
The responsibilities go back to what I said. It is very easy to determine the metrics and measurement of success. You can do the exact same with my job. It is wins and losses and championships, and running the business as efficiently as we possibly can. And they go hand in hand.
Somebody asked about ownership, and I said, “The ownership has been outstanding. The resources will be there.” The resources will be there in Toronto, and it is my responsibility — and the responsibility of those who work with me — to utilize those resources in the best possible ways to get the results that you want, which is consistently winning, championships, and contending every single year.
Contending for championships is what you want to do, and you need to win championships, especially in this city. The pent-up demand is unwavering, and I understand that. It is palpable. You can really feel it.
I was fortunate not to have gone through what I hear was a tough 10 years. Even though Brendan was rebuilding the team in a very strong way, there were a lot of moments of disappointment. That is what sport is. Sports are high and low. They are euphoric, and then you come down to a level you didn’t expect you could get to. But that is the magic of sport. That is why we are in it.
I often talk about a document that was written by two social psychologists, one from Princeton and one from Duke. It was an article written in 1995, and I remember it. It was about a need for a sense of belonging. It wasn’t a desire for people; it was a need. It was a need for a sense of belonging. That is what sport does.
That is where you have a tribal group like the Leafs fans. They have that sense of belonging because they are all Leafs fans. It goes up and down, up and down, up and down. I have felt empty and still do from last week. It takes a while to recover from it, for sure.
You grew up in Toronto as a Maple Leaf fan. You have come back as one of the most influential sports business people in the country. How have you been able to manage your fandom with your business acumen?
Pelley: You’re right; I grew up as a massive Leafs fan from the Inge Hammarstrom and Borje Salming (era). I was a Greg Terrion fanatic. I loved Dan Daoust, Paul Morris, and everything about the Leafs. I remember Turnbull’s five goals. Next year, we are going to celebrate Darryl Sittler’s 10-point game.
That was one of the key attractions of the job. I have fond memories of being a Leafs fan growing up. My dad and I used to watch Hockey Night in Canada every Saturday night. I often did so with my skates on, like a lot of other young kids when they are eight and 10 years old. It is a way of life.
How do you manage that? Look, I am 61 now, so I have had some experience in terms of business. I played hockey my entire life and followed the game so closely, and my boy played over in England; it was one of the first things we did when we moved over. He was 12 years old, and we traveled all over Europe playing hockey in tournaments. Hockey has been a way of life for a long time for me, but at the end of the day, you have to still realize that as much as I am a fan of it and as much as I played it at a very high level, I still know very little about the intracices of the game like the likes of Brad. He played in every different league and minor league, and created the Western Hockey League. Hockey is their entire life.
Hockey is not my entire life. It is a component of my life, and I am a fan. I have been able to separate it and look at it strictly from a business perspective. As I said to Brad, the key to success for any team — or the difference between winning 5-4 or losing 5-4 — is the chemistry and culture of that specific team and the leadership that the team has. That is what I said to Brad. “I understand chemistry, I understand culture, and I understand the importance of it. I can help you with that. I certainly won’t help you decide who you are going to draft in the second round of the NHL draft this year.”
You were a competitor when you played. Are you still playing at all?
Pelley: You know what? I skated for the first time in 12 years. I got the equipment from Bobby Hastings from the Leafs. To be honest with you, I looked like the Michelin man out there. I felt like a goalie. The equipment they gave me was so good. The sticks are so light now.
I played a couple of times. I might have been a little chippy. When you are small, you have to find a way to survive. I played for Ryerson, which is now TMU, and I was pretty small there. I certainly learned how difficult it is to lose. We lost one game where I think we were trailing 17-3 to U of T midway through the second period. We came out and closed the game to 17-4 in the third and lost 21-4. I certainly know how to accept losing.
With the change of ownership from Rogers plus Bell and Larry Tanenbaum, to a majority position with Rogers, are we going to notice the difference?
Pelley: You are not going to notice a difference, I don’t think. The resources are still going to be there. It is my responsibility to deliver on those resources and place those resources in the best opportunity for us to win. That is it. You are going to have the resources; you can see that, and you are not going to see any difference.
It really comes down to how we execute and utilize the resources we are given. If you request resources that you need to win… The reality is, it goes back to the competitive balance of an $88 million cap, but the cap is going from $88 million to $95 million to $105 million to $113 million. Are all of the teams going to be able to move to those levels? Right now, everyone is spending to the cap at $88 million, so the resources you have to use are on scouting, on insights, and on different ways.
I like the fact that the competitive balance is there. It makes the best organization win. How do you make that organization the best it possibly can be? That comes down to having a combination of a team ethos of who you want to be and how you want to play. I really strongly believe that your ethos is created by the team, and then the coach comes in to coach that type of style. If your coach leaves for whatever reason, the next coach should come in and coach the style that you want to play.
If you study the Premier League, teams play a certain style, and if the coach comes in and wants to change the whole style, you have to change the whole makeup of the team. That is where you certainly have to have alignment between your GM and your coach. That is certainly a strong advantage we have with Brad and Craig.
It is difficult to ask you hockey questions because that’s not your job. Correct?
Pelley: No, I am there to support. I am there as a sounding board. I am there to help the guys get the most they possibly can out of the players that we have.
You talked in the press conference about connecting with fans and the media.
Pelley: I think that is important. There are six things — whether it is in sport or business but definitely in sport, and I used to talk about this in golf — in order to be successful.
My boy was playing pretty competitive golf in the U.S. He shot 64 in a tournament. I said, “What are you going to do this summer? Are you going to try to play and make it?” He said, “What does it take to make it?”
I said, “You need natural talent. You need work ethic. It has to take priority over everything else. You have to be able to sacrifice everything to be the best you possibly can. You need a strong mind, especially in golf but in all sport. You need to be passionate about it; you can’t expect to be doing anything else. You need to be happy off the golf course or whatever sport you are playing. And you need to be healthy.”
There are those six things, and the one that is consistent… You could say work ethic and passion are consistent, but the mind is consistent. The mind is even more important in Toronto because of the pressure that comes with it. How do you prepare the players to deal with the pressure in Toronto?
How can the players relate to the fans more? How can we create that relationship and make it stronger? That is a key priority because it is better for the fans and better for the mind of the players. It might sound a little profound, but that is what I believe.
I think the media is the same. I have worked in the media for so long, and with the media in Toronto, everyone looks at it like it could be a detriment. I look at it as: It could be an asset. I look at it as allowing us to be the biggest team in the world in terms of popularity.
How do you translate that into a benefit for the players and the organization? Instead of creating an us-and-them culture, I think it is important that we operate as one, and we don’t look at the media as — perhaps this is the wrong phrase — a necessary evil. I understand journalistic integrity as well as anybody, but at the same point, there are things we can do and stories we can tell. There is access that we can give that is beneficial to the players. It allows them to relate to the fans better.
I do believe we need more access. Only 2% of our fans have gotten into Scotiabank Arena. That is the reason that there are going to be 150 free tickets per game next year that you will be able to enter a draw for. It is important to get access to the fans. That is why we had 10 open practices this year, and we’ll have more next year.
How important is transparency?
Pelley: I think transparency is critical to the point where it doesn’t become detrimental to winning or disadvantageous. You want to be as transparent as you possibly can be without crossing the line to give an advantage to your competitors.
That is where it kind of gets a little bit tricky. In the playoffs, everyone is kind of playing the injury game, and I understand that. But if you built the whole respect throughout the year, you can understand that, right?
The transparency is also explaining why you can’t tell or do things. Does that make sense?
In 2025, players park in a secret area. They walk into their private elevators. There is no access to players anymore. In the end, they are your biggest product.
Pelley: If you really study access, access is becoming more when you start to look at all of the Netflix documentaries. You can look at what that did in Formula 1.
I remember having this conversation back in 2018 in France with the Ryder Cup. We wanted to do this Netflix series with full access to all of the players. In the dressing room for the Ryder Cup, it is no different than it is for a playoff game. It is just a smaller group, but the intensity and passion are there. The competitive juice is flowing.
People were reluctant to give up that type of access, so we didn’t do it. Now, that access is commonplace. Now, you look at the access that Connor McDavid gave for the NHL documentary series.
Access is now no longer something to give; it is expected. The younger generation wants to watch what they want, when they want, and how they want. They want to know everything they can about the athletes.
Bringing that access down can be a detriment. That is what I mean by being relatable to the fans.
Next year, the team is at a crossroads with Mitch Marner and John Tavares, and you have the business. You want to win a Stanley Cup, but you might have some difficult decisions to make. How do you see next year? Is it a retool? Do you like that term?
Pelley: I see that being a conversation to have with Brad and Chief. We will have that conversation privately. That is perhaps where the transparent line comes in, and we sit there and say, “I can answer as many questions as I can.”
We are not at that stage where I can properly articulate an answer that will give you comfort. We have some difficult decisions to make, and we understand them. Some of them have to be discussed behind closed doors.
Lastly, how would you describe the last 12 months of your life since taking over the job?
Pelley: Probably more of a rollercoaster than I would’ve imagined, and more complex. You are jumping from team to team to team, and then you have the music business. You have the restaurant business. It is really a clinic on how to prioritize your time.
I wouldn’t have been able to do this role effectively, and whether I am going to do it effectively down the road will be determined exactly by what I talked about earlier with wins, losses, and efficiencies… I don’t think I would have been able to manage it from a mental capacity when I was 45. You have the Leafs. You have the Raptors. You have the MLS. You have the FIFA World Cup coming. You have the Argos. You have the wonderful relationship with Live.
As soon as the playoffs end, we are going to renovate Real Sports. We are going to make it a sports bar. I think it has been a great sports bar over the years, but it kind of lost its way a little bit. It is the best sports bar in this city that looks like a bank. It is going to have a lot more atmosphere. It is going to be programmed.
It is about determining where you prioritize. It has been busier than I thought. The rollercoaster with the wins and losses has been unbelievable. It is like my boy has a peewee hockey game every single night. There is nothing that you cheer for more than your kids, and the greatest thing about my boy no longer playing university golf is that they had real-time scoring, and I don’t have to keep [refreshing] every 10 minutes when he plays to see if he made a bogey or a birdie.
In Game 7, I was so nervous. You wake up here in this gig, and every day is game day. Some days, it is multiple games.
That is the way I would say it: It’s a great rollercoaster. When you win, there is nothing better. When you lose, it can be really empty.
