On Friday’s 32 Thoughts, Elliotte Friedman cleared the air on the Leafs’ ongoing interview process and the current finalists for the role of head of hockey operations.
John Chayka and Scott White are the Maple Leafs’ finalists
Friedman: I have more clarity since our last pod. I said the finalists were Ryan Martin from the Rangers, Scott White from the Stars, and either John Chayka or Evan Gold from the Bruins. I wasn’t sure about the third one. I now believe it was Chayka. It’s Chayka, Martin, and White.
In addition, I heard they were all invited back to Toronto on Tuesday for in-person interviews. They were all told there was a possibility that a favourite may be invited to stay and meet with the head of Rogers, Edward Rogers, on Wednesday, and could advance to a potential final stage, where, if you could impress the owner of Rogers, you could become the next General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs.
From what I understand, the second phase did not happen for any one of the candidates. They all met. I am told that Ryan Martin from the Rangers was informed, sometime after that meeting, that even though he had a couple of great interviews and they were impressed, he wasn’t advancing further, and he wouldn’t be the next GM.
That leaves White and Chayka. What is most interesting about it: They are very different candidates, almost polar opposites in age, background, expertise, and experience. Everything about them is almost completely different. I don’t know if you could find two more different people if you tried.
Nick Kypreos talked about it being Chayka. I do believe the organization is leaning that way at this time, and it is possible that Chayka gets it. But I think we are far from done. I don’t think anything will get done this week. I don’t think anything will be done this weekend.
Obviously, they didn’t go to the final-meeting-with-Edward-Rogers stage. Maybe you want to call it a slight pause. What I do think: They’re going back and doing more due diligence. Is there anything we’re not seeing here with any of these candidates? Is there anything we’re missing? Before we advance to the final stage, I think they’re doing more due diligence.
That’s where I think they are right now: Are we missing anything? Is there anything else we have to check?
… I think it is more than they’re doing research on the two guys they have — the two people they’re at right now, which are White and Chayka. I think they’re going deeper into that. But, as I said, it is not over.
The content of the interviews
Friedman: I’ve heard about some of the interviews. They definitely ask a lot about process, sports science, and analytics — not just use of analytics, but building analytics. Those are definitely things they’re asking about.
I will say this, too: There is no question that Matthews’ future — which is in Matthews’ hands more than the Maple Leafs‘ hands — is very large over these conversations, in terms of the Maple Leafs understanding, at this point in time, that they don’t know how Matthews feels. It could change the direction of the franchise.
It’s funny. Someone said to me that they’re not sure if the candidates are asking because they want to know in case they get the job, or they want to know in case they don’t get the job, and their current team might want to get a jump on, “Hey, Auston Matthews might be available!”
I think the Maple Leafs are saying they just don’t know and have to be prepared for anything.
On the Mike Gillis of it all
Friedman: On the Mike Gillis thing, I just want to say this, and I said it in the last pod that I’d heard there was at least one school of thought that he would be invited back for another in-person interview. That hasn’t happened yet. But I want to correct some things I think are wrong.
There are people out there who have texted me and said, “Do you think Gillis is already hired, and this GM will work with him?” No, I don’t believe that. I don’t believe that at all. I can understand why people might think that, but that has not happened.
They had one dinner meeting with him, months ago, and one Zoom meeting with him. I think they’ve only spoken to him twice.
Some of this stuff about Gillis is way out there and not correct. I’ll admit this: I have no evidence that they’ve told him he is out. There certainly seemed to be some momentum behind him at one point, but it seems to have gone cold right now. The idea that he has been hired, and they’re just waiting to add to him, is false. It’s just not true.
The title of the role: Head of Hockey Operations
Friedman: Apparently, when the Maple Leafs invited people to interview, the position they’ve told people they’re interviewing for is the head of hockey operations. It is interesting because it is similar to the language the Devils just used when hiring Sunny Mehta. They called him the head of hockey operations. That is what the Leafs are interviewing for, and as far as I know, it is still one person. Could they do tow? Yes, but the longer they go in this process, it is one: the head of hockey operations.
We’ll see. It’s fascinating times.
The latest on Mats Sundin
Friedman: I am still very curious what this Mats Sundin thing will end up looking like. I know it is getting downplayed a bit in terms of what his role will be. I am not sure. I want to see when this is all over, if Mats Sundin is a part of this — and I do think they want him to be a part of this — I am very curious to see what it is all going to look like.
I just wonder if there is an undersell going on here. I say this as a person who really likes Sundin. I confess that I have a bias toward him. I really like the guy. They had him here. They were talking to him. I just wonder if it is any chance it is not just as an advisor; if it is something bigger than that.
I freely admit I could be wrong. But the underselling of his role has my antenna up. Maybe it doesn’t work out. Maybe they both decide to go in a different direction. But I am just wondering about it.
On Jason Spezza and Doug Armstrong’s absences from the Leafs’ field of candidates
Friedman: One of the people I’ve been wondering why I haven’t heard their name is Jason Spezza. I think Spezza would be a great candidate. One day, he will turn out to be a very good GM. He loves hockey. Right now, he is putting in the work. I’ve been asking, why is Spezza not a part of this search? I believe a couple of teams in this process — not just the Maple Leafs — have gauged his interest, and he has indicated this is not his time. He has politely declined. He has told other teams that he has more to learn. When he does look at becoming a manager, he wants to make sure he feels he is ready, and that time is not now.
As for Doug Armstrong, I don’t even know if there has been contact between the Leafs and Blues. IF you look at the candidates they’ve been talking to, I am not even convinced Armstrong is a guy they want, even though his personality, I would say, would be perfect for Toronto. If they want a guy who is going to come in and not be afraid of anything, he is that guy. But when you look at what they’re searching for, he doesn’t fit what they seem to be searching for.
The fact that there could’ve been a hire picked by Wednesday — or at least, advanced through to meet with Edward Rogers, apparently — but that they’ve decided to take a pause for at least a few days could be read one of two ways: They’re in love with both candidates and don’t know who or how to pick yet, or they’re not sold they’ve found the guy.
Needless to say, if this entire search and interview process concludes with one of Scott White or John Chayka as the head of hockey ops without an experienced President above them, there will be major question marks among the fan base, and justifiably so.
The scope of the Leafs’ job is clearly substantial; this is not akin to the mostly turnkey operation Kyle Dubas and Brad Treliving inherited in prior regimes.
While Chayka has run an NHL team before, that stint ended with limited on-ice results and personal disrepute, including a major penalty and an admonishment from the league, and he’s since been working as a Wendy’s franchisee and on other business ventures. Granted, there are undoubtedly two sides to the story regarding the specific dispute with Coyotes ownership, and Chayka never saw through what he started. There just isn’t a ton of inspirational work to bank on from his time running the Coyotes.
White’s hockey management bona fides, at least at the AGM level, are more solid than Chayka, as he’s helped manage a model franchise of sorts; he is a Jim Nill understudy (always appealing) with plenty to like about the Stars’ drafting, developing, roster management, and on-ice results while he’s been employed there, but he does lack any experience running his own show.
Popular sentiment in Toronto is currently extremely concerned about the role of MLSE President and CEO Keith Pelley; he’s said he wants to make the right hire — find his Bobby Webster for the hockey side, as he essentially put it — and then step away and leave the hockey to the hockey people. But could either of those two individuals really command the hockey operation to the point where full autonomy is guaranteed? Would they really enter the job with all of the credibility, reputation, and experience necessary to dictate a bold new vision from the start — be it retools, rebuilds, or some hybrid vision — or simply have it dictated to them via the agenda of the non-hockey executives they’re ultimately answering to?
