Leafs fans have the patience for a “true rebuild”

by on January 13, 2013 in 2012-13 Season - 873 Comments

Leafs fans have the patience for a “true rebuild”
Dave Nonis, GM of the Toronto Maple Leafs
thechronicleherald.ca
Share

Former NFL coach Buddy Ryan once famously said, ‘If you listen to the fans, you’ll be sitting up there with them.’

At the risk of pointing out the obvious, it means that, as a GM or coach of a pro franchise, your job is to do what is best for the team regardless of what the fans believe. Thus, when a person is commenting on the Leafs and says, “Toronto isn’t patient enough to let the Leafs rebuild,” I can’t help but wonder what the hell they are talking about, and why it would even matter.

Let’s start with the facts, which suggest this isn’t even true to begin with.

The Leafs have sucked, or at best been mediocre on the whole, since the lockout of 2004-05 passed (side note, having to distinguish between lockouts now is absolutely embarrassing; thanks, NHL). Yet what do you see when you watch, or go to, Leafs games? Fans. Has merchandise magically stopped selling in Leafs-land? No. Have people stopped tuning into HNIC to watch the Leafs? Not that I’m aware of (frankly, I wouldn’t mind if people did, because then CBC wouldn’t assign their “number one” announcer Jim Hughson to announce Leafs games).

Here are some figures courtesy of Forbes to consider. The Leafs average ticket price is $120, the next highest is $96 (Habs). Even with that obscenely high ticket price, and lacklustre play, the Leafs rank fifth in average attendance according to ESPN , and the only reason they aren’t higher is because they don’t have as many seats to sell as the teams ahead of them. In terms of percentage of the arena filled, the Leafs rank third, behind only Philadelphia and Chicago, who are pretty well perennial contenders.

The Leafs also, according to Forbes, are the highest revenue grossing team at $200M. The next four teams are the Rangers, Canadiens, Canucks and Bruins. All four of those teams have gone to at least the Conference Finals within the last three seasons. Whereas the Leafs, in the last seven seasons, have finished accordingly: 18th, 18th, 24th, 24th, 29th, 22nd, and 26th.

Standings wise, the Leafs have more or less been trending toward a rebuild. The irony, of course, is that they’ve been conducting business as if they are doing anything but.

Don’t forget, either, that Forbes recently reported that the Leafs are the NHL’s first billion dollar franchise.

So those are facts. They basically read that the Leafs are as profitable ever, fill their arena as much as they ever have, and have sucked throughout the process.

Now for the second part of the equation, which is, actually listening to the fans versus doing what is best for the team.

The bottom line reads that, if any franchise is listening to their fans compared to the guys that they give millions of dollars to to make decisions, then there is a problem.

The irony of fans getting mad at ownership for dictating what a GM does, while also getting mad when that same GM doesn’t do what they want him to do, is almost too rich for words.

I mean, if the Leafs aren’t going to rebuild because the fans wouldn’t tolerate it, then they might as well put a poll up on Leafs.com right before they are about to make any and every transaction.

What’s the worst thing that would even happen should the Leafs ever decide to just tear it all down and literally start from scratch with top draft picks? The fans stop coming? If the above stats didn’t convince you that fans would clearly not stop coming, then nothing will.

What’s the other drawback? Fan backlash? The only reason fans have been so pissed off over the last few years is because the Leafs repeatedly stated that they won’t rebuild traditionally, yet were doing terribly regardless. They brought the pressure on themselves. Whether you agree or not with that isn’t the point, the point is that the average fan got genuinely excited when Burke came to town and appeared ready to turn the franchise around right away, then didn’t. It’s the comment I personally receive most from most people, that he “hyped everyone up, then didn’t produce ****. “

If someone in charge of the Leafs frankly states, “This is going to be a slow rebuild, but we will use the draft to accumulate elite talent over a few years and then rise,” are there fans that will seriously be mad throughout those seasons? Frustrated, no doubt; it sucks watching your team lose. But when a guy is clear with you about the direction he’s taking, and you begin to see elite players in the system coming up – I haven’t spoken with one Leafs fan in three months who isn’t tickled pink about Morgan Rielly – then what is anyone seriously going to get mad about? Yeah, Leafs fans are extremely passionate, but if it’s laid out for them like that and it’s easy to see the actual plan coming together, only the special kind of Leafs fans would actually be mad about that.

The Leafs have come to a point, as a team, where they are one of the punch-lines of the league. It is sad, but it is true. They are right up there with the Islanders and Blue Jackets, and man does it pain me to say that. While I do personally believe they are somewhat on the rise – especially if they get a certain goalie – there actually isn’t much further they could have sunk in the past few years.

Yet here we are, even after another ridiculous lockout, clamouring for them.

So let’s not turn this into a “THIS is why the Leafs never win, because fans always come!” debate, or even discuss whether the Leafs should just completely tear it down and rebuild right this second (that wouldn’t make sense at this point). This isn’t even really a discussion on the state of the current team; it’s purely about whether the Leafs could do a slow rebuild in Toronto.

Let’s also not pretend we would stop watching if the Leafs tanked, or if we actually did stop watching for a bit because they sucked, that we would not return after they’ve accumulated more than a few elite young talents and started morphing into a Cup contender ala Chicago, Pittsburgh, etc.

Let’s call this exactly the two things that it is: One: the fans can clearly be patient enough for a rebuild, and two: whoever is in charge of the team has to do whatever he thinks is best for the team regardless of what the fans believe, the Leafs winning (eventually) is what is most important.

The Leafs most likely aren’t going to rebuild anytime soon, so all of this is generally speaking moot. That said, it’s time to stop listening to the dribble that says “Toronto would neither tolerate, nor have the patience for, a true rebuild.” That’s just not true.

VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 0.0/10 (0 votes cast)
VN:F [1.9.22_1171]
Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)

Print article

  • Black_Hawk

    I hope we send Riley back to Junior, think it would be better for his development than having to play a crazy compressed schedule and risk injury

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • wiski

    With Gards out I wonder if they give him a few games before sending him down.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • CarltontheBear

    Probably give him like 5 games then send him down

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • wiski

    James Mirtle ‏@mirtle
    Can Randy Carlyle get more out of these Leafs than Ron Wilson?http://bit.ly/W1BeM5 

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Wilbur

    He’s allowed to play up to 6 games due to the shortened season before they would have to send him down.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • wiski

    Good to know thanks.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • thed00r

    like I said nothing I could say. I could through out a bunch of expletive or degrding words but nothing I could say will change anything.

    Then again I am the complete moron that believes that all rfa contracts should be capped. asses like Doughty holding out just piss e off

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Mattmark

    Oh, I’m not suggesting that you’re alone in pursuing this line of attack.  But I don’t think you and the others who pursue it have the least interest in Burke’s considered opinion of Pittsburgh’s managerial competence.  If you did, you’d widen your focus to include other relevant considerations.  You simply want to take a remark everyone agrees was injudicious and exaggerate it into a deadly insult and a condemnation of a managerial team.

    This is silly–anyone can see that such a conclusion doesn’t follow logically from the slender evidence you’re supplying–but no sillier than trying to pretend Pittsburgh wasn’t incredibly lucky to snag both Malkin and Crosby, nor that the chances of a Cup success would have been a lot more remote without these players, whatever else management did.

    The other notion you’ve expressed here–that we can expect luck’s advantages to be evenly distributed–is self-contradictory.  It does away with the very concept of luck to begin with.  

     

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • djamon

    You just don’t get what it is I’m trying to say…maybe it’s deliberate.

    First, I never called it “deadly”, I just called it an insult. And when you insult someone it doesn’t matter whether you meant to or whether you’re right. It only matters that the person was insulted. If he wants to insult Steve Simmons it likely won’t matter, but when you insult a peer it gets noticed.

    “The other notion you’ve expressed here–that we can expect luck’s advantages to be evenly distributed–is self-contradictory.  It does away with the very concept of luck to begin with”  ——-   BINGO.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Mattmark

    “And when you insult someone it doesn’t matter whether you meant to…”

    It matters a great deal.  In fact, the concept of an unintentional insult is not only problematic, it’s hard to see how Burke or anyone else could be held blameworthy for such a curiosity.  How can I pretend someone has insulted me if he never meant me harm?  If I’m particularly thin-skinned I may feel insulted, but unless the so-called insult is deliberate there’s no sense in which I could hold another person responsible as a human agent for that feeling 

    Re: ‘Bingo.’  Well, case closed.  If you’re obliged to deny the existence of luck to make your point, you could have saved yourself the trouble.  This amounts to claiming that everything is statistically uniform, which is plainly false.  Life itself is one giant anomaly.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Darryl Barnes1979

    Well it would have been nice if Burke started a true re build when he first got to Toronto. At least by now there would be some hope, right now I don’t see this team being much more than average.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Bring_the_Cup_Home

    well, since a rebuild through the draft is a crap shoot as well (the oilers got very very lucky and we have been drafting pretty high for several years), and since we have some good young talent to build around, i say fuck the proper rebuild.  sign getzlaf next year, trade for luongo now, and over the next 3 – 5 years, we’d have:
    - lupul in his last 5 good years, after becoming a great leader
    - kessel in his prime
    - getzlaf in his prime
    - dion in his prime
    - gardiner entering his prime
    - JVR in his prime
    - grabs in his prime
    - reilly coming into his own
    - luongo in the final 5 good years of a great career, capped by a cup with the leafs
    - kulemin in his prime
    - kadri (traded for luongo)
    - some of percy, finn, biggs, scrivens, leivo, brown, etc. coming along
    - a long shot like blacker, colborne, rynnas turns into an unexpected star
    - some good free agent signings

    anyways, ‘proper rebuild’ talk is best left for march if and when we are out of the playoff race.  it’s the start of the season guys.  forget already?  this is the time to plan the parade route!!!!!!

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Glenn%20Healy TuckerThomas

    5 games.  The 6th would count towards year 1 of ELC.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • maple1967leafs

    5 more sleeps then,,,,,,,, DROP THE PHUKIN PUCK

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Djamon

    We’re getting into semantics here and it’s tough because I think you’re being deliberately obtuse. You acknowledge Burke’s comment was “injudicious”, but refuse to accept that anyone in the Pittsburgh organization could be insulted by it. Simply because Burke didn’t mean it that way? For someone who seemingly prizes logic above common sense I find that hard to believe. I’m sure you don’t think Burke meant to insult Bryan Murray at the 09 draft either when he made a point of telling him he was taking the player Murray wanted.

    These types of behaviours add up and judging from the way Burke was fired I’d say he’s done it a lot more than we (or he) realizes.

    Regarding the “luck” tangent, my point was that I think luck is spread evenly amongst everyone…both good and bad. While this doesn’t negate the existence of luck, it negates the effect of luck.

    Now I’m done with this nonsense.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Rigs

    The Leafs will never have a pick in the top three regardless of finish.  The NHL is a business and you it cannot permit itself to send prospects like Crosby, Ovechkin, Taveres, Nathan MacKinnon, etc., into a strong, sold-out market like Toronto.  You need to distribute them to struggling franchises (Hello, Crosby saving Pens, and Tavares saving the Isles).  

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Quinten_24

     i was being sarcastic when he suggested it, would be a retarded move

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • Steve Giovanelli

    What a pile of bullshit!!! The Loafs have been rebuilding for years. Trading away top picks, yada, yada, yada. What they haven’t been doing is putting a contender on the ice. Are you proposing that we start trading the core of the team (which by the way a lot of us feel pretty good about), so that we can put together another 5-year plan and bottom feeding team? Let’s start with a coach that has the ability coach a young group of guys and motivate them without kicking the crap out of them. Now who might be available? Let me see. Hmmmmm. It’s on the tip of my tongue. Crap. Got it! Got it! Dallas Eakins. Imagine him as a coach? Naw. He can’t coach. Bullshit again.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • D.WAdair

     They are nuts.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • D.WAdair

    Brian got the rebuilt on it way, just needs a few more assects and they will be ok, unless Dave has a brain cramp and trade for Luongo. This is not the time for a big trade as they are not a contender. Let the two goalies play the short season and see how they do, maybe we don’t need to get a goalie. If we do then we get a good draft pick and fix the net later. There will be a goalie available next year. Leafs will make the playoff any way with what they got.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • hockeyguyRH

    Burke/Nonis 4 years.  Still no Center or Goalie, and a weak Defense. Lots of wingers though. Wing is the least most important position and its the Leaf strength. Wingers are easy to find. Wonder why? A poor job over 4 years. Total rebuild necessary now, especially with the next 2 Drafts being strong.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • hockeyguyRH

    Defensemen are more valuable than wingers. Schenn and Aulie for JVR and Ashton. Time will show the leafs got burned. Wingers are a dime a dozen.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)
  • https://twitter.com/Sandra_A87 Sandra

    Quite nuts, yes.

    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0.0/5 (0 votes cast)
    VA:F [1.9.22_1171]
    Rating: 0 (from 0 votes)